I use a kong twin ascender every day. I was not happy to hear about having to back up my ascender by isolating both legs w/ a prussik. I prefer to foot lock but there are many occasions where you find a body thrust nessecary. I tie in like normal w/ a VT and spliced line. I set my doubled ascender on rope as if I were footlocking and start thrusting. The stride is already set for a full reach. The VT tends itself. You can use a pantin if you prefer. When you reach your destination, tighten up on your climbing hitch and take off the ascenders. The down side to this is you are foot locking at half speed. The up side is that you dont have to tend your own slack or have someone else belay you for those short jaunts. Any comments?
Climbing w/ a Double ascender
- Thread starter 1newsom
- Start date
Quite honestly, I'd forget about wrestling with this issue, and learn the frog SRT system and RAD system for easy ascent. They will safely, ergonomically and quickly solve the issues of footlock and bodythrust. And you'll have more energy and be less prone to injury.
Believe me, it makes sense! /forum/images/graemlins/burnout.gif
Believe me, it makes sense! /forum/images/graemlins/burnout.gif
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
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Slightly off topic but related to the kong twin ascender, has your ascender ever jammed as you've approached larger limbs? A great friend Frank Maandag did a climb with us here in Australia. As he approached the top end of his climb, his ascenders jammed as the rope pulled them apart. With nowhere to stand below him, and too far below the limb he was expecting to adjust the ropes, Frank was forced to perform a rather awkward maneuver.
I can't describe the complexity accurate enough to do any justice, but from what I saw there was no easy solution, unless you had spurs and a second large flipline.
Just wondering if you had ever come across this, or perhaps considered a way you would get the weight off the rope enough to free the ascenders.
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The answer (if you don't have a lanyard on your saddle) is to pull up one side of the two ropes, make a small monkey fist, toss it over the limb (or even better a slightly higher limb) and tie a DdRT system with it, clip into your saddle, all set. Now you can unload the ascender and move on.
Slightly off topic but related to the kong twin ascender, has your ascender ever jammed as you've approached larger limbs? A great friend Frank Maandag did a climb with us here in Australia. As he approached the top end of his climb, his ascenders jammed as the rope pulled them apart. With nowhere to stand below him, and too far below the limb he was expecting to adjust the ropes, Frank was forced to perform a rather awkward maneuver.
I can't describe the complexity accurate enough to do any justice, but from what I saw there was no easy solution, unless you had spurs and a second large flipline.
Just wondering if you had ever come across this, or perhaps considered a way you would get the weight off the rope enough to free the ascenders.
[/ QUOTE ]
The answer (if you don't have a lanyard on your saddle) is to pull up one side of the two ropes, make a small monkey fist, toss it over the limb (or even better a slightly higher limb) and tie a DdRT system with it, clip into your saddle, all set. Now you can unload the ascender and move on.
it sounds to me like your friend was in a bad way. if he climbed above his ascender to reach the branch then he put him self at great risk. i have never jammed mine like that but i have wished that i had not taken that last footlock stride a few times. you can down climb using your footlock in reverse but scary!not safe. i think i would simply set my rope higher in the tree before takeoff or stop at a lower limb to advance my line with a monkeys fist or loop. interested in this maneuver but i got a bad feelin
i would like to add that i use this method when my work is specific and is located away from the trunk where i would have to try and balance on a limb to adjust my slack to achieve my tie in. it is the same as footlocking the tail but you dont rest on your fricion hitch. it remains loose to feed the rope through as you take strides. also let it be known that i am no fan of body thrusting at all and i think that this is a very effective substitute for me since i climb on my kongs everyday and it is always on my saddle. i guess you achieve the same result as with the lockjack twin but you can not descend until the running side is unclipped from the ascender.
just to let you know, those ascenders are not designed to take a lead fall. the potential exists for 6to7 feet of slack if you are above your ascender to climb on the limb. those ascenders are frame tested but the cams can blowout under much less when shock loaded. never climb above your ascender.
I forgot to mention 1newsom that there are six reasons for favouring the frog system over footlock with double ascendrs - ergonomic efficiency, simplicity, speed, safety, versatility and convenience.
The problem at present is that there are only two harnesses available that are designed for the frog system AND a sliding bridge for work positioning. But there is only one that is ergonomically designed also. I can personally recommend it as most excellent! /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The problem at present is that there are only two harnesses available that are designed for the frog system AND a sliding bridge for work positioning. But there is only one that is ergonomically designed also. I can personally recommend it as most excellent! /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Hi Lazarus2,
What are the two best harness's for the Frog System? I use the Versatile right now and I'm looking to buy the newer/latest version because it has a wider back/nicer leg straps. I also have the Frog System and it works good with this saddle - but I'm not averse to trying a different harness
peace,
mk
btw, i worked at the workclimb in MN with you (i think) - strange guy moving from Cali to Mich - with the dog
What are the two best harness's for the Frog System? I use the Versatile right now and I'm looking to buy the newer/latest version because it has a wider back/nicer leg straps. I also have the Frog System and it works good with this saddle - but I'm not averse to trying a different harness
peace,
mk
btw, i worked at the workclimb in MN with you (i think) - strange guy moving from Cali to Mich - with the dog
Attachments
- Location
- Home of the New Jersey Devils
Hey, I remember that tree and that dog. /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Lazarus, you weren't at the ITCC were you? I'd be ticked if you were and I didn't see ya!
Lazarus, you weren't at the ITCC were you? I'd be ticked if you were and I didn't see ya!
Now I'm as happy as any shy boy to blend into the background, but going to the ITCC and not announcing it to my favourite buzzers would be VERY rude ! /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I have had jokers at events masquerading as me in the past - thought it was a big joke to walk around with my name badge when I didn't show, for whatever reason....
I have a feeling I could be in the states soon enough. If that turns out to be the case, you can be sure you're all invited to the TreeFlex party! /forum/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
I have had jokers at events masquerading as me in the past - thought it was a big joke to walk around with my name badge when I didn't show, for whatever reason....
I have a feeling I could be in the states soon enough. If that turns out to be the case, you can be sure you're all invited to the TreeFlex party! /forum/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
- Location
- Central NJ
Wait a minute...what are the two harnesses that work w/ the Frog system? And is this system you're talking about the same one I saw in Sherrill's cataloge?
I do have a biege dog, but I wouldn't be taking her to the states unless to live! Spooky!
There are many saddles that allow the frog system. But only the Petzl variobelt with sidestraps, and TreeFlex, also have sliding D for work positioning.
I would avoid any saddle with a very large back pad, designed to sit in the small of your back. There are many accounts in rope access and tree work, of lower back complaints. If each component of your spine cannot flex - you are going to alter the (4) natural curves of your spine. That leads to injury. One reason being, that if your spine doesn't flex, the body stops providing synovial fluid for lubrication. No prizes for guessing the risks there!
This is why we designed treeFlex - a true ergonomic design to fit the pelvis, not the lower back. Its comfy leaning into a flipline or work positioning, and doesn't restrict natural movements. The design is an internationally licenced idea (like copyright) and has an adjustment system patent pending. We have an anatomy programme that strips the body down in 3D through its various layers of muscles, nerves, ligaments, tendons and bones (gruesome but cool!). The TreeFlex is designed to fit the pelvic girdle, resting on the fused bones of the sacrum, the muscles of the Gluteus maximus (ideal at carrying load), whilst cut away to allow free range of hip movement and avoid pressure on nerve lines. The design prevents the belt from riding up into the ribs, and is cut away there also. The rear pad sits in the sacrum hollow (especially with chainsaw clipped centre back). This helps keep the harness seated properly. The waist belt tie-in is low down like a caving harness for slick frog SRT - karabiner loop, no D. The lighweight 'Y' chest harness, can be unclipped front and back, so its quick to leave it on the access line after ascent if so wished, or removed completely and quickly for jobs where it isn't required. I just wrap it round my waist and keep it with me most of the time.
Initially, I thought it wise to advise all to wear any harness below their hips. But we know of no harness ergonomically designed to do that (apart from TreeFlex). Without the cut aways etc, they can distribute pressure in undesirable ways, and not support or function in a technical way.
Hence TreeFlex - the solution. The harness has many unique features, and is designed and protected in such a way as to have no equal
Its a great product with a collaboration of cross industry experts - real ergonomics and systems engineering, that will benefit ALL harness users eventually.
I think I'd better shut up now! I haven't posted pics, because I'm waiting for the polished version with final colourings and fittings. That should arrive in the next two weeks, so I'll post the pics in the 'TreeFlex' thread then.
Sorry this went on a bit.
There are many saddles that allow the frog system. But only the Petzl variobelt with sidestraps, and TreeFlex, also have sliding D for work positioning.
I would avoid any saddle with a very large back pad, designed to sit in the small of your back. There are many accounts in rope access and tree work, of lower back complaints. If each component of your spine cannot flex - you are going to alter the (4) natural curves of your spine. That leads to injury. One reason being, that if your spine doesn't flex, the body stops providing synovial fluid for lubrication. No prizes for guessing the risks there!
This is why we designed treeFlex - a true ergonomic design to fit the pelvis, not the lower back. Its comfy leaning into a flipline or work positioning, and doesn't restrict natural movements. The design is an internationally licenced idea (like copyright) and has an adjustment system patent pending. We have an anatomy programme that strips the body down in 3D through its various layers of muscles, nerves, ligaments, tendons and bones (gruesome but cool!). The TreeFlex is designed to fit the pelvic girdle, resting on the fused bones of the sacrum, the muscles of the Gluteus maximus (ideal at carrying load), whilst cut away to allow free range of hip movement and avoid pressure on nerve lines. The design prevents the belt from riding up into the ribs, and is cut away there also. The rear pad sits in the sacrum hollow (especially with chainsaw clipped centre back). This helps keep the harness seated properly. The waist belt tie-in is low down like a caving harness for slick frog SRT - karabiner loop, no D. The lighweight 'Y' chest harness, can be unclipped front and back, so its quick to leave it on the access line after ascent if so wished, or removed completely and quickly for jobs where it isn't required. I just wrap it round my waist and keep it with me most of the time.
Initially, I thought it wise to advise all to wear any harness below their hips. But we know of no harness ergonomically designed to do that (apart from TreeFlex). Without the cut aways etc, they can distribute pressure in undesirable ways, and not support or function in a technical way.
Hence TreeFlex - the solution. The harness has many unique features, and is designed and protected in such a way as to have no equal
Its a great product with a collaboration of cross industry experts - real ergonomics and systems engineering, that will benefit ALL harness users eventually.
I think I'd better shut up now! I haven't posted pics, because I'm waiting for the polished version with final colourings and fittings. That should arrive in the next two weeks, so I'll post the pics in the 'TreeFlex' thread then.
Sorry this went on a bit.
oops so much for my messageboard Clouseau attempt! thank you for your detailed response - I can't wait to see a picture of this saddle - it sounds like a great one. Where would it be found in the US? When I did a search for an image - this is what google threw at me 
Flex Tree Saddle. Think it could be modified?
thanks,
mk
so much for my messageboard Clouseau attempt! thank you for your detailed response - I can't wait to see a picture of this saddle - it sounds like a great one. Where would it be found in the US? When I did a search for an image - this is what google threw at me Flex Tree Saddle. Think it could be modified?thanks,
mk
Ha ha ha ha - hoooooeeehehaaaa! I'll take the 16" big horn special /forum/images/graemlins/brows.gif - that cracked me up! I'll send it on to safety technology!
We still have to finalise the details for the american market. But it shouldn't be too long : ) And it will be worth waiting for, I can assure you. I am just so pleased that the technical, ergonomic and manufacturing requirements came together in such a simple way. A truly no compromise and affordable product (£185 plus VAT).
Not long now for those pics!
/forum/images/graemlins/fruit.gif
We still have to finalise the details for the american market. But it shouldn't be too long : ) And it will be worth waiting for, I can assure you. I am just so pleased that the technical, ergonomic and manufacturing requirements came together in such a simple way. A truly no compromise and affordable product (£185 plus VAT).
Not long now for those pics!
/forum/images/graemlins/fruit.gif
