Butterfly conversion @ ITCC

Mark_B.

Mark_B.

Location
Basel, Switzerland
Regarding the use of converted Butterflies at ITCC: I spoke to Hubert earlier this evening and he said he'll be testing the whole shebang, i.e. dyneema strap, shakles and Butterfly together next week. The resulting test documentation'll be made available on site in Montréal to all who need it. This applies ONLY to the ART conversion. To my understanding this should do the trick for all who want to use the Butterfly in the comps.

I think this dog's bark is probably worse than it's bite, at the end of the day it's about sensible documentation of your gear, which I feel is initself not a bad thing. The condition of some of the gear that crops up at TCC's is, to put it mildly, bizarr! So in this respect I feel at "big" comps like ETCC or ITCC, it's not asking the world of people to be clued up about their gear- providing the same guide lines are seen to be applied to all gear, regardless of where it comes from.
 
Mark,

Thanks for keeping us posted. Having Hubert with his documentation will be helpful.

The catch is that the wording of the statement from ISA states that they want a sign off from the saddle manufacturer, approving any modifications. To me, that is really silly. Be prepared for some sparks to be flying at gear check. I get into Montreal at around noon so I'll be ready for the meeting.

You are right about some of the bizarre gear. One year when I was in Texas for thier comp, a guy showed up with an odd looking helmet. I asked him what the helmet was for. He said that it was for horseback riding. He didn't own a work helmet so he scrambled around the barn and found that one. I didn't let him use the horsey helmet :)
 
wierd helmets was Re: Butterfly conversion @ ITCC

Tom,

You missed my first year, when my friend realized at the last minute he'd have to come up with a hat. He bought a half dozen different ones at a garage sale and showed up at the comp. with a fireman's hat! It passed inspection (whether or not it should have) but I think carrying that thing around all day probably slowed him down.

We've come a long way, baby.

k
 
Nope, sorry... it seems the documentation won't be enough- I received definitive confirmation of a ITCC rules comittee decision, that Butterfly modifications without the manufacturers OK won't be allowed. Sorry about the misinformation- but why can't this be communicated at an earlier point in time, or even- dare I suggest it- be included in the climber's info packs?! OK, I'll admit it, I'm upset by the whole business.
 
Mark,

Couldn't the ART bridge be used in conjunction with the original? A biner could be clipped into the aluminum ring AND around the original strap. That way, if the ART ever failed, the original would be able to catch. {like that is a remote possibility...}

Same goes for taking a piece of climbing line, tieing it into the al rings and letting the bridge float.

Tom
 
Hi Mark
I think your quite justified in being upset about this situation. If there was a problem in Seattle last year the offending modification could have been taken in hand, been discussed & sorted out moons ago. To leave it until 2-3 weeks before ITCC is outrageous. Those climbers who have come to almost sleep in these harnesses are clearly being put at a disadvantage because now they are forced to move over to something they are unfamiliar with. Does reck just a little!
The TCC's seem to me to be a place where innovation can be shown in the public domain, so how slowly are we to move forward with product development if precise & carefully thought out modifications are being kiboshed from within the industry? The equipment manufacturers need to be guided from within the profession! We do not go out to do a job of work without looking carefully & thoroughly at the equipment & techniques we employ, so why should that be any different at TCC? Over the years as tree climbers we have employed many systems that were not designed for their particular use, that has not stopped us & some have since become the norm for daily use.
I remember 8years ago in the UKs first competition, the machard was ruled out of the comp. because nobody had seen its use before. Climbing has come along way since then so why don't the power that is be a little more thoughtful about this & look into the bigger picture?

Good luck & kick arse to all butterfly mod users
Cheers
Nod
 
Hi Nod & Mark Well as far as I'm concerned this whole subject with the butterfly is a load of s**t instigated by the powers that be in some attempt to handicap some of the top euro climbers and we all know who they are????
Lets use a bit of common sense here please.If the comet is CE marked as being safe and Hubert has the dynima band and shackles tested,Then whats the problem!!!!Changing the factory fitted strap for the the aftermarket version makes absolutely no difference to the integraty of the construction.The rings that the dynima strap are attached to are strong enough the shackles attaching them to the dynima are also strong enough and the dynima meets Kn regulations then ofcourse its safe any fool can see that..To much red tape !!!!
Ok what about strops.No strop on the market is tested in conjuction with a particular Harness and its the same a tested ring fitted on the side of the harness that is attached by a carabina in this case to a piece of strength approved rope.Its just the same as attaching the dynima to the rings on the legs.You can argue as much as you want about the fact that the factory fitted attachmant has been removed so voiding the CE mark but the system is safe and that is the only thing that we should be argueing about.
Lets talk about prussik rope then where is the EN code on prussik rope ok it may meet the Kn requirements but,thats purely for strength not for abrasion and heat once you applie these variables in to the equation the rope can no longer be said to meet the strength requirements because it has not been tested under these conditions.
Lets not be hypocrites here if were going to take this unswayable attitude to the comet then we have to do it with every single piece of equipment not just on its own but when used in conjuction with every other piece of kit.That means your prussik must be marked for use with a particular rope your strop and carabina attachments tested in conjuction with your side Dees and your helmet in conjuction with your head!!!!!!Once we start down this road it won't be long before everyone has to wear exactly the same thing and there will be no individualism and there by no more advances in climbing techniques and equipment Theres a word for this BONDAGE.....Climbers BONDAGE!!!!!
Lets tie everyone up in red tape.
I can see it now 2008 ITCC who can ring the bells fastest and complete all the stations in a cherry picker ofcourse a CE approved cherrypicker designed just for that use and tested in conjuction with all other components!!!!
Anyway I have said my piece
This whole subject is making a mountain out of a mole hill and enough is enough

Didj (A man who climbs on an ART dynima strap SCARY)
 
P:s what about documentation and Kn rating for the branches we rope into:If we are unable to judge the safety of our own equipment then our ability to judge safe anchor points for ourselfs should also come into question..
 
All competitions whether it is the wooden shoe carving contest in Holland or the Hula dancing contest in Hawaii get political.

It is just the nature of the beast. It is our job to stay sane and try to bring some logic to the questions posed.

Try to see what their motives are and think from their shoes a bit. I doubt it is the MAN trying to put a European brother down. Hoodwinked, bamboozled, run amuk.....etc. I would like to know what the motives are and who the players are that make these decisions.

.02
 
Yeah I understand completely what your saying man but I'm just sick of all the red tape in place of common sense I am sure that any tech who is quite capable of making decisions regarding safety would find the comet with after market attachment safe when inspecting it before a comp given all the relevent info but like you say who is making the rules probably someone who doesn't know a comet belt and dynima bridge from their ar**hole ???? What ever it just gets on my nerves !!!!!tree climbing has always been about common sense and understanding otherwise you don't last very long WELL UNTIL the man behind the desk started making the rules that is
anyway enough moaning from me
I*m off to climb Troll vegen in my slippers and using three strand,well only for the overhang

Didj
 
Joe,

I had a signed letter from the manufacture that Tom had posted earlier. This put the committee at ease and they were left with only having to inspect for defective rope or poorly tied knots.

They also allowed some other mods after some discussion. It wasn't that big of an issue after all.
 
The ITCC committee decided to have a voluntary gear check for the competitors.

There are changes in the works for next year. We do have 11 1/2 months to iron out the details.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom