AR Question

B

BrendanG

Hello all, I asked this question a few years ago but things times have changed and I would like to see if the answers have followed suit.

Climber is in large tree with spreading crown, out towards the tips of a branch with their lanyard on when they go unresponsive from heat stroke, you are on the ground and watch as this scene plays out. As I see it you have a couple of options.

Option 1, spike up the tree, tie in, work your way out to the climber and respond accordingly. All of this could take a while especially in a very large spreading tree.

Option 2, set a line using a throwline, ascend and respond accordingly.

Option 3, ascend the tail of the climbers line, perhaps using an SRT system, disconnect the lanyard and bring the climber down, both on the same line, seems like it would be the quickest but is it the safest? Any thoughts or ideas about how safe and feasible this would be.

Maybe there are more options I didn't consider, please let me know your thoughts, Brendan.
 
Just a quick first-thought that I share early in any AR discussion.

When a climber chooses a system and tie in point its made with the thought that it is all strong enough to support them with some unknown safety factor to account for a swing. When was the last, or first, time a climber looked at a TIP and said, 'OK, that TIP needs to be strong enough to support me and my rescuer?'

More later...
 
If he's climbing Ddrt wouldn't climbing his tail advance his climbing system to a point where he would be under pretty uncomfortable stress from his lanyard pulling one way and climb line pulling another? Probably not life threatening, but potentially dangerous I think
 
Yeah, climbing the tail would only Be an option srt I think. Even srt I think you better be pretty sure of that TIP. I think getting a line in is second. In the given scenario spiking up would be my last resort
 
I don't believe that climbing the tail would cause the climber to go up much unless you seriously outweigh him/her and there is little friction in their tie-in point. If they are out and away from their anchor point the pull to center may cause a problem for the victim though for sure.
 
I think Tom makes the biggest point, is the anchor safe enough regardless of the style of accent?
My thoughts on AR and discussing AR is that the too often we get tunnel vision on the speed of rescue and lowering of the potential casualty. Option one would seem the safest and most time productive way. Yes, it may be slower than throwing a 10oz bag up near the casualty or putting more forces on his system than is designed, but at least we are not putting ourselves in any further risk of injury or both. Remember, never rush and never put yourself in harms way for the sake of saving someone. One dead person is better than two...
The difficult part to grasp with aerial injuries in our industry is that they are often brutally bad. But what we must realize, once the aerial component in emergency response is brought into the picture, the efficiency of rescue and time it takes to complete increase significantly. And that is because of the safety factors that need to be checked and double checked so we don't end up with a cluster of people in need of rescue.
Great discussion, but think about what is the overall goal and where it is leading. We all can't be EMT's, we all can't be world class climbers, and we can't be expected to do more than what is safe or prudent. But what we can do, is be safe, have safe attitudes, and focus our production on safe practices. Then at least we can reduce the risk.
 
All great points, thanks for everyone's input. Lets say climber was using SRT, you felt comfortable ascending their rope/TIP after testing it as you would any standard TIP, how feasible is it to carry out a rescue like this, has anyone tried it? I have not. I have a few thoughts/questions.

Firstly lets say they both victim and yourself are climbing SRT each using a RW, could you work two RW systems on one line safely? Wouls a Rope Runner, Unicender or other similar device change how this would work?

Would you need to transfer your system above their's to make this possible? When doing this could you tie a stopper knot below their system and use them as a tie in point for yourself if there where no sturdy limbs right there?

If they where climbing DRT and you ascend SRT with RW on their tail, how would you attempt this? Would you simply tie into their saddle and both descend on their system? Or could you do the same as above, use them as a TIP and transfer your RW above their prussik and come down this way, would this work, hooking the RW into a part of the system that's moving?

I have a picture in my head of this and hope I have explained it well enough, like most things in my head when I put them into practice they happen a lot differently.

We are due to practice are AR next week and may run through this low and slow so any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Brendan.
 
In a real life situation I may be inclined to climb the tail, granted the TIP was strong enough, depending on the severity of the injury and if the climber was on a RW. I would NOT climb someone's tail that was using a Unicender being as mine does not engage when the line is weighted below the device with my foot ascender.
 
Climbing the tail presents a few problems. The main one being what Tom mentioned. Also if they r out at the tip of a branch bucked in the extra weight may cause the branch they are bucked into to break, depending on the size and angle. Also it may be very difficult to get your self above them or even at their level if u are tied into the tail of their rope. In this situation I would ascend the tree normally and work my way out to their position. I believe this would allow for much more ease of movement. U will be able to preform the rescue much more safely with better position.
 
Option 2 with a wraptor, or an Option 4 of spraying him/her with a garden hose etc. to get them alert enough to pull up a water bottle or three.

Heatstroke more likely to cause great dizziness; hydration is the best treatment i know of. I once had a client stare at me for 10+ minutes while I crouched in the shade of a fork drinking and waiting for the heat symptoms to pass so i had it together enough to lower myself. Uncomfortable.

For all those elite climbers who never carry one: Would this be a scenario where a ladder might be useful?
 
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With Timber Jack on this. Wouldn't the installation (or leaving in) of a rescue line (or access line) - rather than a working line nullify the question/issue? Buildings have fire escapes; why can't trees?
 
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