Zig zag tips

Leonelito

New Member
Location
Oregon
Company just got me a new setup, zig zig/chicane/flow rope, any tips on getting the spliced end of the rope through the zig zag easier? Do you guys just leave the zig zag on the rope usually? Carabiner getting into the chicane is reeeally tight, hopefully that loosens up over time? Just looking for some efficiency tips with this setup. I mainly srt up if it's a decent size tree and switch over to drt. Thanks!
 

Jonny

Well-Known Member
Location
Buffalo
I don’t have a ZZ so I can’t offer tips for it, but do you work the tree SRT ever?
You got a nice setup for it now. After getting used to it, you be much better off and faster not switching over to DdRT now.
 

Leonelito

New Member
Location
Oregon
I've tried it a couple of times with my rope wrench, but still found ddrt easier to use for limb walks and moving around without having to worry about setting up something to pull back up a limb. But definitely going to try it more now with this setup. Also got a rollclip biner to try out the scam method.
 

JeffGu

Well-Known Member
The tight fit helps keep things from getting sloppy feeling... they do loosen up a little bit with use.
I don't use the ZZ/Chicane setup on ropes with a tight eye on both ends... they just don't fit through the ZZ. You might have to cut the splice off of one end.
 

climbstihl

Well-Known Member
Location
Germany
The tight fit helps keep things from getting sloppy feeling... they do loosen up a little bit with use.
I don't use the ZZ/Chicane setup on ropes with a tight eye on both ends... they just don't fit through the ZZ. You might have to cut the splice off of one end.
He has the Petzl rope with the splice that is advertised as small enough for the Zigzag.
 

Leonelito

New Member
Location
Oregon
I can pull it through with a throw line size line, just not that efficient or easy. Splice is only on one end so if I can't figure anything better out I can use the other end. Just seeing if anybody else has figured out a faster way to pull it though.
 

Crimsonking

Well-Known Member
I don’t have a ZZ so I can’t offer tips for it, but do you work the tree SRT ever?
You got a nice setup for it now. After getting used to it, you be much better off and faster not switching over to DdRT now.
Not to derail, but that’s a rather narrow view of work positioning. There are many trees that I can navigate faster with ddrt than with srt, and vice versa.
To the OP- that’s a versatile setup you have; enjoy! As for threading mine, I try to leave it on its dedicated line as much as possible. You will probably find it the most efficient overall, as you can sync your setups around it easily with a little forethought and practice. It can quickly become second nature.

Some tips:

when installing a canopy anchor, use your spliced end to cinch, and attach a second line to the splice for retrieval.This method allows easy transition to ddrt if desired, and gives you maximum rope length for redirects if climbing srt.

If basal anchoring, use your spliced end as the anchor, so that it’s above your device if you switch to ddrt.

These methods only matter if you prefer using the splice for ddrt. Otherwise, carry on and have fun with your new smooth ride.
 

Leonelito

New Member
Location
Oregon
Not to derail, but that’s a rather narrow view of work positioning. There are many trees that I can navigate faster with ddrt than with srt, and vice versa.
To the OP- that’s a versatile setup you have; enjoy! As for threading mine, I try to leave it on its dedicated line as much as possible. You will probably find it the most efficient overall, as you can sync your setups around it easily with a little forethought and practice. It can quickly become second nature.

Some tips:

when installing a canopy anchor, use your spliced end to cinch, and attach a second line to the splice for retrieval.This method allows easy transition to ddrt if desired, and gives you maximum rope length for redirects if climbing srt.

If basal anchoring, use your spliced end as the anchor, so that it’s above your device if you switch to ddrt.

These methods only matter if you prefer using the splice for ddrt. Otherwise, carry on and have fun with your new smooth ride.
Just what I was looking for! Played around with it all in a big maple in my backyard just now, loving it so far. So much smoother than my VT hitch. Leaving the zigzag on its own line seems easy enough too.

I've never had a spliced rope before this too, love how easy it is to reset my friction saver and also go from srt to ddrt.

Thanks for the tips!
 

Crimsonking

Well-Known Member
You assume that one would climb past work. Also, you are arguing in two dimensions. I’m not interested in a peeing contest, so we can each enjoy our approach. My main gripe is toward spouting that ddrt can be wholly tossed away in favor of srt. If one knows all the benefits of ddrt, they may see maneuvers that will save them time and energy that may not be feasible with srt in a particular climb.

To be clear, I use srt a lot. I have since I started climbing. It wasn’t till five years in that someone challenged me to improve my ddrt skills. Once I committed, climbing changed for me. Even my srt climbing was improved.

Ddrt is extremely enjoyable to me, and I use it as often as is fitting. Sometimes, though, a good basal anchor is called for. Sometimes a canopy anchor. Approaching every tree with one technique is limiting. For that matter, sometimes using one technique in a single tree is limiting. Switching from ddrt to srt and back during a climb can be quite useful.

There are many that will agree with you (heck, on the right tree, I agree with your approach), but I will stand firm on encouraging people to hold onto or develop skill in ddrt as they embrace srt. It changes the way you see the work plan, and can speed up the process to the point that installing the friction saver was worth it ;)

Oops, looks like I went ahead and argued anyway. Good night!
 

theatertech87

Well-Known Member
Location
Rochester
Leave the zigzag on the line... Leave the carabineer on the chicane, use another carabineer in the top hole for ddrt and as part of your come for srt so it stays with the zigzag setup line... Get a corner trap carabineer for the harness attachment side of the zigzag
 

JeffGu

Well-Known Member
For SRT, I feed the ZZ onto the non-spliced end of the rope, since the other end is either in the tree with a canopy anchor, or hooked to the basal anchor system. It's usually less rope through the device that way. Since I have more than one ZZ, I don't switch the SRT line over, I just use another system. Sometimes I install all lines from the ground before I go up, and sometimes I just haul a second system up with an 1/8" haul line. In the latter case, I usually just leave the ZZ on the 2nd (DdRT) system, at the anchor end (I use anchors with pulleys). That way, the ZZ is right there where I need it when I attach the anchor.

I wouldn't stop using DdRT systems no matter who thinks they're obsolete. I also don't have racing stripes on my helmet, Rock Hudson designer climbing pants with a zippered flap in the back, or glow in the dark climbing boots with rainbow shoe laces. At my age, I appreciate the higher efficiency of SRT ascent, and the lower wear and tear on your body that it offers. For working the tree, I also appreciate the mechanical advantage and smoother response that MRT offers. Sometimes new technologies and techniques obsolete older ones... sometimes they don't. I'll go out on a limb (pun intended) and say that moving rope systems will be around for a very long time, no matter what the cool kids are flying.
 

DSMc

Well-Known Member
Location
Montana
... I wouldn't stop using DdRT systems no matter who thinks they're obsolete...

LOL, I can hear myself saying those exact words just a few short years age. But the advent of the tree-specific multisender, has forever changed my world.

If I had a better way of detaching from a crane, and other similar situations that require fast line retrieval, I would definitely be done with it.

An MRS is arm-dependent, an SRS much less so and even when arm strength is needed, it is still easier using a 3:1 haul-back on the arms and in most cases safer than the hauling and taking up of slack in a typical MRS.
 

Burrapeg

Well-Known Member
Location
Puget Sound
. . .Since I have more than one ZZ, I don't switch the SRT line over, I just use another system. . .
I went this way myself. When I bought my ZZ two years ago, I got a deal if I bought two. I normally use one on each end of my main rope, so I can pull up the tail and use it to advance the TIP or as a second positioning line. Either end can be either SRT or DdRT, depending on whether I want to put a RW above one of them. I also usually carry my BDB along on the saddle, if I need to slap it on my long lanyard for some reason. I am thinking of converting this long lanyard over to the Moss System.
 

Jemco

Well-Known Member
Location
San Diego
SRT still gives me the creeps in that it's so dang skinny the thought of powering up the rope hand over hand's a fantasy without a foot ascender, knee ascender, or hand ascender.

If yur gadget breaks, you pretty much have only one way out, down.

Now SRT on a one inch fat rope.......

Jemco
 

theatertech87

Well-Known Member
Location
Rochester
SRT still gives me the creeps in that it's so dang skinny the thought of powering up the rope hand over hand's a fantasy without a foot ascender, knee ascender, or hand ascender.

If yur gadget breaks, you pretty much have only one way out, down.

Now SRT on a one inch fat rope.......

Jemco
If you're rope walking in any fashion, you'll have some type of ascender for each foot, so there is redundancy. Also it doesn't take much to setup a 3:1 z rig to advance either, so additional redundancy...

Yes you're slower, but no where near stuck having to decend
 

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