Would you trust this termination on a lanyard or anywhere else?

Winchman

Well-Known Member
I was looking for a smaller alternative to a knot that's easier than sewing or hand-splicing a tight eye. It was easy enough to work a large fid through the Voyager rope followed by a carabiner.
Term2 2021-01-15 .jpg Termination 2021-01-15 .jpg
I was very careful to make the opening between the strands of the cover. I secured it to an overhead anchor, and bounced myself on it several times. There was no change it how tight the opening was on the carabiner, and no change in the appearance of the strands nearby. The two openings in the cover for the carabiner are a little smaller than the single opening for a traditional eye splice.

I'd complete the termination by whipping and gluing the end, then seizing it to the spine of the carabiner. I wanted to have some separation between the glued end and the opening so the rope fibers could move a little if more load is applied.

What do you think?
 

Cereal_Killer

Well-Known Member
Location
Ohio
I did that with a accessory carabiner (actually fed it through twice) when I had to cut my long lanyard and that made it so short I didn't want to loose any usable length with a stopper knot. Barely trusted it in that capacity. I'm not making a claim either way whether that it is or isn't safe but I surely wouldn't trust it.
No rope fibers are holding your weight in the way they typically would, all you've got is the friction of the weave keeping it together now, even after you whip it it still doesn't distribute the load to the rope fibers in the normal way.
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
Location
Michigan
Maybe do some sewing on both sides of the carabiner to keep the core from slipping, along with the seizing. And melt the end along with gluing.
 

evo

Well-Known Member
Location
My Island, WA
Oh hell no. The weak point of most splices is at the end of the burry, this is due to fiber distortion of the lay of the line. This is why proper tapers when splicing is so important.
 

Winchman

Well-Known Member
I decided to set up a crude test rig with stuff on hand to put more load on the termination without doing anything else to improve its performance.
Test 1 2021-01-20 .jpg
With the 6:1 pulley system and a scale, I was able to get 720 pounds steady and a bit more momentarily. Here's what it looked like under that load on the sixth pull.
Test 2 2021-01-20.jpg
There's a little compression of the strands just inside the carabiner, but the rope remained very flexible between that area and the whipping. After the load was removed, the rope was still tight around the carabiner, and there was no apparent damage to any of the visible strands.

The figure eight knot securing the other end of the Voyager rope was quite a lot tighter that any knot I've had to untie after climbing, so I'm pretty sure I've loaded the termination well above any loads I've put on my climbing gear.

I want to use the termination to secure the rope to the carabiner on my safety lanyard, so the normal loading would be half my climbing weight or about ninety pounds. Subtracting for losses in the pulley system, I've probably tested it to six times the normal load with the crude setup.

How much load do I need to put on it to call it safe?
 

evo

Well-Known Member
Location
My Island, WA
I decided to set up a crude test rig with stuff on hand to put more load on the termination without doing anything else to improve its performance.
View attachment 72875
With the 6:1 pulley system and a scale, I was able to get 720 pounds steady and a bit more momentarily. Here's what it looked like under that load on the sixth pull.
View attachment 72876
There's a little compression of the strands just inside the carabiner, but the rope remained very flexible between that area and the whipping. After the load was removed, the rope was still tight around the carabiner, and there was no apparent damage to any of the visible strands.

The figure eight knot securing the other end of the Voyager rope was quite a lot tighter that any knot I've had to untie after climbing, so I'm pretty sure I've loaded the termination well above any loads I've put on my climbing gear.

I want to use the termination to secure the rope to the carabiner on my safety lanyard, so the normal loading would be half my climbing weight or about ninety pounds. Subtracting for losses in the pulley system, I've probably tested it to six times the normal load with the crude setup.

How much load do I need to put on it to call it safe?
Don’t and just stop now, please. If you want to just play around and see what it takes to break it for some weird reason, well ok.
If your seriously considering this for life support, and trying to prove it, I will come over and hack all your climbing gear into 3’ lengths. You have much to learn before considering such experiments. Just ship it off and get it spliced or sewn proper like. Learn a shit ton more, and then learn how to splice.
 

Tony

Well-Known Member
Location
Lancaster, PA
OK, OK, I'll stick with the knots. Sometimes it just doesn't pay to think outside the box.
O. K. rationalize criticism you don’t wanna hear

This is a spectacularly shitty idea. Rope is a creature of tension. Tension loaded as equally as possible. If you don’t get that you don’t get rope, you don’t get bend radius

Don’t take my word for it though. Here is the paraphrased response from an engineer at Teufelberger. (I know it’s a Sampson rope)


When you load such a configuration, it´s easily possible that the braid is opening completely and releasing the carabiner. That´s a completely undefined stage of strength

The whipping doesn´t add much to the strength.

Damage the fibers (core and cover) when you are pushing such a carabiner through the rope is likely

The transfer of the load from the carabiner is not smooth equalized to all yarns of the rope. That could lead into peak forces which are breaking some yarns earlier than others.

Really?

Tony
 
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