What to keep in-mind when splicing hitch-cords from 12-strand (Ice Tail)?

eyehearttrees

Active Member
tl;dr- I can splice double-braids and hollow-braids well, however I'm uncertain what to look-out-for when trying to splice two eyes onto 1 cord very close to one another (I can recall having some issue when making a ~4' long Blue Moon lanyard, and can recall some splicing-guide or thread making mention about minimum distances from eye-to-eye so I wanna do this right now just measure how long I want it and assume it's all good :p ) This is for hitch-cord's, uncertain what length is ideal I know I can use my 28" Epicord 9mm in 'normal' configuration just fine although wish it were 2" longer, heck I can't tie other hitches I tried before and none were preferable so "if it ain't broken" lol ("prussik-configuration" is what I mean no VT/Schwabish/etc, my instinct was just to splice this Ice Tail into continuous loops to use same way I use my 3/8 double-fisherman's loops as hitch-cords now, except with those I can't use the prussik-protecting plastic thimbles I'm planning to use w/ my Ice Tail prussiks long-term plus I get strength by omitting knots, nm how much strong Ice Tail is for an 8mm :D )


I could always just do a double-fisherman's I guess, hell I climb on a pair (don't ask :p ) of prussiks made that way and always have, at any rate I wanna upgrade here so......What do I keep in-mind when making a short-lengthed eye-&-eye sling/hitch/rope?
I'm new to hollow-braids but couldn't even nit-pick the job I did on my 9' Safebloc whoopie, hollows are just too darn easy (hence getting-into them as my primary hitch-cord cordage going forth!) to splice I mean most of my splicing is hollow braids which leads me to my worry: when I was making some Blue Moon lanyards/fliplines, I found....oddities....when trying to splice to eyes/ends so close to one another :/ I know I've read things about what to consider/keep in-mind/etc when making two eye-splices so close to one another on 1 piece of cordage but can't find a single article/thread on the topic so here I am in-hopes maybe someone like @NickfromWI (odd, his name didn't come up in auto-fill...) or other very experienced splicer can give me the skinny on what to watch for / keep in-mind when making 12-strand hollow-braid eye&eye split-tails :D

Thanks a ton for ANY advice, anything at all is greatly appreciated I've got 10' of Ice Tail ready to rock (didn't get much, wanted to see feet-per-hitch before ordering a roll of it!!)

Specs: 8mm Ice Tail hollow braid is what'll be spliced, I've got those $0.50 plastic 7/16" eyelets which are great fits - and for non-moving rope interfaces or 'biner interfaces they're plenty sufficient. Am planning to use this 8mm hollow since #1 I learned how great hollow-braids are and expect a hollow[as a friction hitch] will bite better than comparable-spec'd double-braided rope and how easily I can always have cheap, spliced-w/-thimble hitches on-hand, am also still unable to find any hard-#'s for prussiks'-strengths however Ice Tail is >8500lbs and in prussik-loop(or doubled-spliced-eyes ends) configuration it should be doubling that, so while I'd wanted to try it since before I'd ever bought a hollow-braid I became dead-set on getting it for my hitches once I chose on Mercury as my final/end-all climb-line :D Seems an awesome combo, both are rated 8.5k+ lbs, wish Ice Tail had better shock-absorption but I'm light and again I use 2 prussiks when climbing but 8mm is 72% of Mercury's diam which is like 5% under 'ideal' for how tight your hitch cordage should be so I expect this'll bite like crazy in fact maybe I'll get my 1st jamming problems w/ it :p
 
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eyehearttrees

Active Member
OH- also hoping to learn name (or get linked to a tutorial) for that type of sliding-splice wherein you put the sling around the tree (choked on a spar) and are left w/ 2 foot-loops, have seen it pictured in magazines but not commonly, almost looks like a whoopie-sling that's got 2 adjustable eyes or something, would let you setup *very* comfortable/stable work-positions w/o having to put your spurs on I think!!
 

SeanRuel

Well-Known Member
You can do a locking brummel splice with super short tapers on the tail buries. not sure on minimum length, maybe 3 inches with a solid lock/ whip stitch. that keeps ice tail super flexible/ soft.

Are you trying to make hitch cords for climbing?
 

eyehearttrees

Active Member
You can do a locking brummel splice with super short tapers on the tail buries. not sure on minimum length, maybe 3 inches with a solid lock/ whip stitch. that keeps ice tail super flexible/ soft.

Are you trying to make hitch cords for climbing?

He must have got his stuff, he hasn’t been back. I think he is using them for climbing and rigging.

My bad I am a mess w/ my threads I can't keep "active window" and end up with 20+ browsers lol!!

Had found that Samson, gotta love 'em, has actually got a splicing tutorial for eye&eye's using tenex(reg&TEC) and Ice Tail so was lucky & happy that Ice Tail was by Samson :D https://samsonrope.com/docs/default-source/splice-instructions/12strand_c1_eye_and_eye_tail_web.pdf?sfvrsn=1e0022aa_2

They say 80" of rope for a 33" eye&eye, I wanted 31.5 so used 77" of rope (thinking "it's basically doubled-up so removing 3" should remove just 1.5" from final-product") but it came out 29.75", not too bad although I wanna get this reallllly nailed as, w/' how simply-spliced Ice Tail is and how excellent a rope it is, I think DIY Ice Tail eye&eye's may be all I climb on going forward I mean I can order it @$1.29/ft (no S&H) from Gap and just order whatever little lengths I need -- with the $1 spent on a pair of plastic thimbles I'd take my Ice Tail hitch over one from a magazine and mine's costing under $10 ;D

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I'd gotten 10' (120") so after the rope for the eye&eye I still made a double-fisherman's loop (which is what I usually climb on, a pair of loops where one is slightly taller than the other of course so they're biting/moving in sync)
Image was setup this way to show it on 11mm Mercury I gotta do same on my Blue Moon it's just tucked away clean & in a bag right now but this is part of a new sling so good showcase for:
1/top - true 8mm(or "7/16"?) Ice Tail, diameter uncompromised by splice-fattening,
2/middle - 9mm Epicord, double-braid (best 'hand feel' I'd ever felt til I got Ice Tail, can now just say they both feel as good as a double or single braid should feel!! Wish they were 2%+ stretch though, at least Mercury is and if I'm using 2 hitches......) NOT thickened from braiding (sewn product, tearing actually but Bartlett's says Don't Worry lol, hasn't gotten worse to be fair)
3/bottom - Ice Tail 9mm cordage fattened by length-wise tucking of each end's braid (with what I *think* should be a central *thick* spot, I got a soft spot, am def gonna be doing a TON of 'low&slow' w/ these new hitches although I'm small I never had issue w/ hitch cordages :? )


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And I'm using these for climbing BUT am eager to start using other prussiks for rigging I just can't find good info, for instance can I take 1/2" TEC and make a loop-prussik, then use that on a 3/4 TEC sling (w/ hardware) as a 'basket catch' for the hardware? Kinda like how those "Pulley-Saver" setups do it, where the sling is choked onto the limb/spar by virtue of adjusting the prussik on one side to 'catch' the hardware that's spliced-into the end of the other side, for instance this is it using 3/4 polydyne as the sling w/ 11mm Mercury as the prussik-catch:

20200116_121210.jpg

^would allow some seriously quick/versatile slings w/o having to be whoopie-type (ie would allow double-braids to be used w/ comparable versatility even though they can't take the sliding-splices of hollow-braids!) but I can't find data on prussiks not static ABS nor dynamic-capacity (relative to 'regular knots' is useful but am unsure where I'd even expect breakage to occur, for instance a load should fail at the bull-rope//log junction, but let's say that a whoopie failed should it have been the hardware leg or the loop-end? The latter, of course...with double-braids, and using a prussik as the 'adjustable eye' side of the sling (instead of the whoopie's adjustable-eye side), I'm unsure if I can just look at it and say "that's 2 legs of rope so 2X", because a prussik here is inherently likely to be a weak-link since its optimal diameter is so much smaller than the cord it's to ride on, I do like the idea of the doubled-prussiks as catchers/baskets/eyes (as pictured above ^ ) a lot though because Mercury has so much dynamic strength and w/ 4 lengths (from 2 prussiks) that puts it around the strength of the 3/4" polydyne it's on (again, unsure whether a prussik should be stronger/weaker than the line it sits on, am uncertain where the weak spot would be IE would the spliced hardware tear-out of the prussik loop or would the prussik tear a leg at the body/main sling cordage?) So many q's, would love to know *anything* anyone could share, am still spreading the word that if people/a person wants to pay for, say, a $25 pack of 10 o-rings +/- like 20' of Ice Tail (so $26, shipped), I'd be happy to supply as much Mercury as needed as if I can get Richard Mumford to do some tests, I've got a couple lanyards that're doubled-over Mercury (11mm/3.5% stretch(! :D) / 8500lbs tensile) where I slide a pair of o-rings onto the middle of, say, a 20' length before folding it over, I use a zip-tie to bind the pair of o-rings at one end and use these small hair-elastics - they stay in-place surprisingly well - to keep the rope together, it's further kept together by having multiple prussiks on it as well as a 3' cordura sleeve that was like pure-flat when I got it so it's a nice setup, would take it over a TreeSqueeze any day but would love to get hard #'s because both Mercury and Ice Tail come in around 8.5k lbs static, obviously Mercury is far more dynamic (I've rigged with it!) but doing slow/static tests of "doubled" Ice Tail (an eye&eye prussik) on a doubled-over Mercury line, would be interesting to see where failures occur -- I'd donate at least 75' of Mercury to a project of this nature if anyone's interested, would do all the splicing if helpful as well (for everything but Mercury, although if I were sending to Mumford I'd have a handful of spliced Mercury lines in there I just haven't had time to make them knowing I'd have to setup my 1st real 'test setup' :p )
 

SeanRuel

Well-Known Member
The thin spot Is from your tail tapers not being totally spot on. Probably fine.

I'd personally not use thimbles on hitch cord, too much extra slop.
 

eyehearttrees

Active Member
The thin spot Is from your tail tapers not being totally spot on. Probably fine.

I'd personally not use thimbles on hitch cord, too much extra slop.
Re the thin spot yeah that was my thought, gotta say I'm surprised as I thought I'd used extra cordage for what I was trying to make IE thought I'd have a good deal extra to cut-off at that last step yet ended with one tail that wasn't long enough to warrant cutting (yikes!) so just went with it as you say it's probably fine (certainly won't use it as alone, as a primary, thankfully I use 2 hitches so kinda a moot point for me)

Re thimbles, am surprised you see them as slop there's literally almost no space taken-up, I'd use them all day / function-over-form as spreading-load on a rope does a ton for it, I know Ice Tail is already strong as hell but still like to make things as strong as reasonably possible! My next ones won't be spliced though, not for my climb line (11mm Mercury) as the doubled-over Ice Tail in a spliced eye&eye makes it about 11mm thick IE as thick as my climb-line, will use double-fisherman's loops for Mercury and'll revert to eye&eye splicing if/when I move to Voyager or Vortex :) (those are 7/16" thimbles like 0.5mm thick very tiny things just 'wrappers' for the inside of the eyes!)
 

eyehearttrees

Active Member
Actually a better way to look at it is probably "spliced 11mm Ice Tail for the doubled-over Mercury lanyards&false-crotches, single-length Fishermans' loops for climbing" since thicker Ice Tail doesn't matter on 2 legs of Mercury (have re-made all my lanyards & false-crotches in a doubled-over style kind like the TreeSqueeze's setup, also made a TreeSqueeze lanyard w/ Mercury ;D )
 
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