Urban Tree Falling

Jamin_Mayer

Jamin_Mayer

Location
Longmont, CO
Sorry all. But, I've finally worked out some bugs on my computer to be able to edit videos. As you can tell, I'm a little motivated to make videos.
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I know there are guys who are comfortable with falling whole trees into a residential street and some who aren't.

Well, in order to compete with bucket truck companies (I climb everything) I decided to fall whole trees to be competitive. I did this for about 6 years until I switched gears and started putting a crane on nearly everything...

I also figured; if it can be done, then why not do it?

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And trust me... I have never had any close calls with pedistrain traffic (cars or people). I have always blocked both directions of traffic with cones and groundsman directing traffic (when necessary).

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I also only fell whole trees in slow residential areas. For example, the whole time I was at this job, we didn't see a single car in need to pass by.

This tree was dismantled to reduce weight from one side and limbed up a bit not to plunge huge branches into the lawn. I also beleive in the good ol' saying: "Measure twice cut once." You'll see why...

Cottonwood on Karsh Dr.
 
Nice Jamin,

I'll be the first to say you were brave to leave the chipper where you did. Maybe confident is a better word to use.

Anyway, everything went according to plan and that's the name of the game. Keep the vids coming!
 
Looked clean to me. I've dropped trees on streets before. I always worry about gouging the asphalt. Did you get any damage from that?

The best advice I've heard about blocking streets is to notify local EMS so they can route accordingly. Never done it myself because I only dropped'em like that on slow streets, but it's a good thing to keep in mind.
 
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was that a boyish giggle right as the tree fell?

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Oops. Did you hear that?
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Hearing the cracking of the hinge wood and seeing a tree bust into a thousand parts is kinda fun. It never gets old.
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Nice to be able to drop a tree where its supposed to go and all.. and yes good to protect the concrete and drop trees in the street where the chipper can get right to the brush etc....

BUT and this is a big BUT... why take a chance and put the chipper and truck in the potential drop zone? I've done it before just to save the time of moving the machine twice when it was a straightforward notch and drop on a small or medium tree, but still, when a tree is that big, I'll take the time to move the truck and chipper out of the drop zone.

Did you have a pull line set? couldn't see it from the video, but assumed ot was there..
 
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... Maybe confident is a better word to use...

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BUT and this is a big BUT... why take a chance and put the chipper and truck in the potential drop zone? I've done it before just to save the time of moving the machine twice when it was a straightforward notch and drop on a small or medium tree, but still, when a tree is that big, I'll take the time to move the truck and chipper out of the drop zone.

Did you have a pull line set? couldn't see it from the video, but assumed ot was there..

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Jim and Daniel.

No pull line needed.

Yep. I too usually move the equipment out of the drop zone, but this was done the way it was for a couple of reasons:

First, I was extremely confident with the conditions I had to work with; favorable lean, took off the weight on the opposite side of the fall, and my own experience played a part into it.

The second reason is that I'm putting videos online to cummunicate to potential customers that I know what I'm doing. I think it is the underlying motivation for most of us tree professionals making videos or posting photos of our work. We want to communicate credibility.

Was it worth the risk? Before the tree fall, I would say it would difficult to tell if it was worth the risk. After the fall, I'd say it was worth the risk.
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However, I saw no risk because I was confident with my falling abilities and I liked the conditions I had.

A valid concern Daniel.
 
I hear ya... if you know its a good drop, you can trust your falling skills and the holding wood is all good, you can develop a lot of confidence... THAT IS A GOOD THING..
You need confidence... You most definitely have it..

To say I would have, or might have dome something differently is much different than saying "that's wrong"... BIG Distinction... especially when having limited information of just a video...
 
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To say I would have, or might have dome something differently is much different than saying "that's wrong"... BIG Distinction... especially when having limited information of just a video...

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I agree. I think that is usually most people's intentions over here on T.B. Sometimes constructive criticism gets confused with negative criticism.
 
This should be taken as constructive critisism. I hate to mention it and don't wonder why no one else has because it happens to us all. Unless the viewing angle distorts it, it appears the hinge was compromised, also saw that with Daniel's falling compilation. As this can have devestating results there is a couple of things that could be done differently. The back cut should be closer to level with the apex of the face notch so it's easier to judge hinge thickness. Then a trick I learned from another forum after being brave enough to ask is... Set the hinge thickness on the far side from where you want to be to finish the backcut. Then jam a twig, piece of grass, drinking straw, chop stick whatever in the kerf on that far side. Move to cutting the side you're finishing on, set the hinge thickness with the base of the bar and cut in till the twig jumps and you don't have to double check the far side. Whala perfect hinge. Good trick when climbing and it's awkward to check the far side. I hope my explanation is understandable if I had a video camera I'd show ya.
 
In review you over cut the close side. I've done it myself, more than I'd like to admit but it is a serious mistake. I bet you over compensated because the truck was there.
 
Note: There was no mistake with the event of that fall. I could go over every detail and take up all of my Sunday afternoon... But, I'll spare every one.

I'll clarify your observations and I'll clarify what I have been formally taught with this explanation...

You see a tapered hinge. The taper is narrower on the north side of the stump because there was a little more mass that direction. Therefore, I cut the taper thinner on the compression side of the hinge. The tension wood side was left thicker to hold the hinge true.

I used a traditional/conventional notch. The back cut on a traditional notch is not to be level with the undercut of the notch. (If I used a "open faced" notch I would have made the back cut level with the hinge like one is supposed to). I have read and been formally taught that the hinge should be about 10% the thickness of the diameter of the tree (or where you are administering the cut). Likewise, the height of the back cut should be about 10% of of the diameter of the tree.

That back cut was no more than 3" higher than the undercut of the notch.

I also made the dept of the notch a little further in the tree than the normal 1/3rd rule. I chose to notch in further for more hinge wood.
 
Here's my thinking on hinge wood. Only the last 1/2 to 3/4 inch does the holding. The rest if you make it thicker tears early. It is obvious by examining the stump. If that's all the hinge that's left the strongest hinge is 3/4" across the width. In our urban felling situation if you have to use a tapered hinge you have moved from knowing it will work to hoping it will work. I have total respect for your opinions and style and you know we need to be 100% sure of our techniques with what we do.
 
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Here's my thinking on hinge wood. Only the last 1/2 to 3/4 inch does the holding.

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Don't you think that the size of the tree being fallen dictates the results of the hinge?

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In our urban felling situation if you have to use a tapered hinge you have moved from knowing it will work to hoping it will work.

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There was no hope involved with this tree or any other tree I have fallen. You are speculating my motives and you're projecting your own experiences into my displayed work. In a nut shell, I have to respectfully say you're not right.

The tapered hinge was there because I observed a little more mass on the north side of the tree. I put the tapered hinge there because literature says to do so. Because a knowledgable faller would do so. I don't get why you have to "major" on a "minor" issue.
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knowing what you can and cant get away with is a huge part of this business. experience is how you know the boundaries. its obvious you are an excellent feller and know your abilities. i would have made the same cut with the truck there, if you evaluate the situation and calculate risk, and the answer seems like a go. why not. thats what insurance is for anyways! kidding
 
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Hmm I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again. But I'm confident on this one. Just be careful and stay safe.

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I'm not saying your wrong on your methods, but I wasn't hoping for anything. I hope you understand that.
 
Ok, Jamin, I'll give you 3
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for the sound effects, but I'll give you five more if you can pull the chapagne cork out of your other vid and put it in your next one!

I think this is a great example of someone who by his own admission does not claim the greatest faller in Colorado, but is very confident in what he does know. While I also don't claim to be a great faller (getting better and learning more), I did observe in this video is that there is very little that may have gone wrong, and what could have would not have affected the lay that much. Maybe Jerry, Daniel, or some others can find something, but it looks like he had a great situation to use the skills he was confident with to produce an effective and safe fall.

Let's say a small gust of wind blew from south to north. How much wind would have been needed to put a branch maybe 5 feet closer to connect with the chipper? That would have over-ridden the tapered hinge he used? What other detail, in this situation, may have caused damage or injury?

I think the tapered hinge, a Dutchman, and bore cuts are all appropriate felling tools given the right conditions. What gets us messed up is when we go above our experience and end up practicing on trees in conditions that we ought not to try.

Just my opinion, humbly and respectfully given. If I'm wrong, please let me know and I'll adjust.

By the way, can anybody contact the graemlins people and have them design some arborist ones?
 
Hey Jamin I got another one. I know. By moving the hinge back to the middle of the tree you are getting more old heartwood in the hinge and less spring wood. Because of the curve of the tree staying with the rule of 80% diameter you get signifigantly more strong fibers while appearing to be a smaller hinge. And... a better hinge.

I price a tree as if it had to be climbed, then fell it. Unless it's super easy and you know you'd lose the job by bidding that way. With climbing rates this leaves room to take it from the top down and if you open it up and find decay or something else you missed there is no panic.
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