Is anyone aware of a quick release hitch, tieable in the bight, which is tied on a tree trunk and takes a load in any direction, and is good for life safety? So, for example, you could use it for rigging, or as a basal SRT anchor, or a retrieveable canopy anchor by a hunter who used climbing sticks to climb a "beanpole" tree with no crotches, and can then can tie it and rappel on it and in all cases, ya just tug on the other line and it spills and falls to the ground? Because I devised one and am doing some testing tomorrow with a tension scale. I will video record the test. I am using 8mm Sterling cord and hoping to see what happens if i put 2000lb of tension on it, where its tied as a basal anchor on one side and on the other side as a canopy anchor (around the trunk ) and i am pulling between them. I had 600 lbs on it today and afrer unloading, it releases same as 50 lbs of load. If this test goes well, i was going to submit the knot to IGKT for consideration as a new knot. And so I am just trying to assess if anyone else has already come up with it or a close relative.
Secure, omnidirectional quick release hitch
- Thread starter John RB
- Start date
I think I was following along until this part, I’m having a lot of trouble picturing and understanding working from in between canopy and base ties.
Pretty simple to retrieve most canopy anchors, but I’m still interested in what you might be on to.
Care to share a pic or rough drawing?
I took a video today but it was too large to attach to the post. In a Traditional canopy anchor retrieval, if it's 50ft up, it requires you to pull of rope to remove it. In these applications,
In the video, you can see that this was simply the way i rigged my test: set a basal anchor and pull up the trunk. Set anchor up the trunk (not exactly canopy but whatever) , then apply tension between them.
Good questions. A "good size limb" could be a hundred pounds and although that's enough force, i can't imagine how it would grab a free hanging line. I am trying to assemble a small team to test it via a private Facebook group and gentleman's agreement that ya just don't kill yourself please. I have great trust in my arborist contacts but some of my hunting contacts will do some crazy risky stuff and i simply can't show them yet. If you'd like to play with it let me know and I should have something set up in a couple days.
Cereal_Killer
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Ohio
Applying a load with a come-along, while it may be a heavier load that a climber will exert, does not accurately represent the load that a human climber would place on the knot.
To be frank, I will NEVER trust this, I don't care who you have test it. Quick release on a life safety knot? No thanks. I guess I fail to see any advantages, only safety risks.
To be frank, I will NEVER trust this, I don't care who you have test it. Quick release on a life safety knot? No thanks. I guess I fail to see any advantages, only safety risks.
agent_smith
Active Member
- Location
- Townsville
Hello John,
Since part of your 'intent' is to make a claim of originality (for your hitch), you should submit it to the IGKT without delay.
There are some very knowledgeable and experienced knot tyers who frequent the IGKT forum.
In particular, identities such as Xarax (Greece) and Dan Lehman (USA) - plus a few others - will be able to provide informed comment about your hitch.
I can tell you that claims of originality often fail - simply because of the proliferation of knot discoveries in the past decade - particular by Xarax, who has a penchant for hitches. There is also Clifford Ashley's book (ABoK) which has a couple of thousand illustrated knots and hitches (published in 1944).
I note that you appear to only conceptualize pulling the hitch to its MBS yield point (ie break testing). Pull-it-till-breaks is the default thinking, and its flawed in many ways. You should also run the following tests:
[ ] cyclic loading
[ ] slack shaking
[ ] flogging (ie whip-lashing the hitch - send a series of very vigorous pulse 'waves' down the rope in an attempt to induce slippage).
[ ] rapid changes in loading direction (ie pull one direction and then suddenly change the direction, rinse and repeat over a sustained period of time with multiple changes of direction).
If your hitch can withstand these tests - then proceed to the default 'pull-it-till-it-breaks' (ie increase load until you reach the MBS yield point). One very important point - when conducting MBS yield testing - make sure that at each end termination (anchor) you have identical hitches tied. One hitch will reach its MBS yield point before the other. The 'surviving' hitch is very important, because it was maximally loaded right up to its MBS yield point. You should photograph and carefully inspect that 'surviving' hitch - and document all details.
Submit all of that data to the IGKT for analysis.
You should specify the type of rope you use in your test (make, brand, model, diameter, certification, etc). I would advise repeating your tests with different rope types.
Since part of your 'intent' is to make a claim of originality (for your hitch), you should submit it to the IGKT without delay.
There are some very knowledgeable and experienced knot tyers who frequent the IGKT forum.
In particular, identities such as Xarax (Greece) and Dan Lehman (USA) - plus a few others - will be able to provide informed comment about your hitch.
I can tell you that claims of originality often fail - simply because of the proliferation of knot discoveries in the past decade - particular by Xarax, who has a penchant for hitches. There is also Clifford Ashley's book (ABoK) which has a couple of thousand illustrated knots and hitches (published in 1944).
I note that you appear to only conceptualize pulling the hitch to its MBS yield point (ie break testing). Pull-it-till-breaks is the default thinking, and its flawed in many ways. You should also run the following tests:
[ ] cyclic loading
[ ] slack shaking
[ ] flogging (ie whip-lashing the hitch - send a series of very vigorous pulse 'waves' down the rope in an attempt to induce slippage).
[ ] rapid changes in loading direction (ie pull one direction and then suddenly change the direction, rinse and repeat over a sustained period of time with multiple changes of direction).
If your hitch can withstand these tests - then proceed to the default 'pull-it-till-it-breaks' (ie increase load until you reach the MBS yield point). One very important point - when conducting MBS yield testing - make sure that at each end termination (anchor) you have identical hitches tied. One hitch will reach its MBS yield point before the other. The 'surviving' hitch is very important, because it was maximally loaded right up to its MBS yield point. You should photograph and carefully inspect that 'surviving' hitch - and document all details.
Submit all of that data to the IGKT for analysis.
You should specify the type of rope you use in your test (make, brand, model, diameter, certification, etc). I would advise repeating your tests with different rope types.
Agent Smith, first, it's nice to see YOUR reply as I am assuming you are the same Agent Smith who stated the following in March 2018 on an IGKT discussion thread. If so, I have bookmarked that thread as I am a fan of the Hunter's Bend:
"To be 100% crystal clear... #1425A Riggers bend (aka Hunters bend) is perfectly safe to unite 2 climbing or abseiling ropes."
Back on topic, the IGKT website provides no details about what it expects in a submission. It merely states: "Anyone proposing a new work to the Guild, or offering a work produced by another body for publication by the Guild, should submit the manuscript to the Publications Group (preferably in electronic format) at publications@igkt.net."
And so, may I ask what is expected? Is there a 'manuscript template' or itinerary of expected materials? I also left a post on the IGKT Facebook group which got no helpful reply. I do not have access to test equipment, and because there are minor some variations possible in the hitch, obviously, I would want to submit the variant that is the strongest. And its simply impossible for me to assess given the overall strength and stability. My plan was to simply send a detailed video demonstrating how to tie the know along with a textual description. But should I be contacting a lab and doing testing and THEN submitting to IGKT? Any input is appreciated. Sincere thanks.
Jehinten
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Evansville
I don't have much input on the hitch, but as for the test that you completed, if you ramp it up to the breaking strength please add a sling around the log to attach the puller to. This can be kept slack so that the load is on the hitch, but when the rope breaks it will catch the puller instead of turning it into a projectile. Also a heavy blanket in the belly of the rope would be good to prevent the end of the rope from doing the same.
Thanks, great suggestions, also received from the others. I hope to run another test this weekend.
Update: based on the advice I received here, which I appreciated, I ran another test this weekend, video attached. I tied the hitch the same way top and bottom on the tree trunk, then attached it to my pulley system with a scaffold knot intentionally. My logic is simply the fact that the scaffold. Is widely regarded as secure at approximately a 75% efficiency. And so if it breaks first, b4 my hitch, that's a nice attribute on our resume. It did. And so the next test will be taking out the scaffold and substituting a JRB hitch on a beaner as well as the tree trunk. My guess is the small bend radius of the beaner will cause that to fail first. But I think it will get past the mark set by the scaffold knot. And of course I can repeat all these tests later to get more data points.
agent_smith
Active Member
- Location
- Townsville
I checked the IGKT website and it doesn't appear to be there?
There is a section titled "New knot investigations".... and its not there either.
IGKT website: https://igkt.net/sm/index.php
There is a section titled "New knot investigations".... and its not there either.
IGKT website: https://igkt.net/sm/index.php
Agent Smith,
I got a response from IGKT today and the party who responded said: "I am uncertain whether the IGKT still has a formal submission process". I responded and am awaiting further feedback. This really surprised me. If IGKT doesn't have a process, and Clifford Ashley is not returning my text messages ... then what's a guy with a new knot supposed to DO???? Seriously, can I just publish it on YouTube and let the chips fall? If somebody sees that video and provides evidence that Billy Bob Smith (your cousin of course) invented that knot in 1972 and provides evidence, then I will just take down my video, and replace it with a BillyBob knot tying video instead... right?
agent_smith
Active Member
- Location
- Townsville
I don't represent the IGKT or speak on their behalf.
Having said that, its a simple process to sign up as a member of the IGKT and start posting.
Having created an account (login + password) - feel free to post in the section titled "New knot investigations".
The IGKT is not a government agency and has no Federal powers or any decision making powers.
Its a loose collective of knot enthusiasts - some of whom are quite knowledgeable and willing to freely share their knowledge.
You are not obligated to post new claims of originality to the IGKT - its a free world.
However, it is a better place than most - for trying to determine if your creation is original (or not).
And I have never heard of anyone having trouble posting their claims of originality - and as far as i am aware, there are no conspirators or people that will try to obstruct you from making a claim of originality!
Having said that, its a simple process to sign up as a member of the IGKT and start posting.
Having created an account (login + password) - feel free to post in the section titled "New knot investigations".
The IGKT is not a government agency and has no Federal powers or any decision making powers.
Its a loose collective of knot enthusiasts - some of whom are quite knowledgeable and willing to freely share their knowledge.
You are not obligated to post new claims of originality to the IGKT - its a free world.
However, it is a better place than most - for trying to determine if your creation is original (or not).
And I have never heard of anyone having trouble posting their claims of originality - and as far as i am aware, there are no conspirators or people that will try to obstruct you from making a claim of originality!
Thank you. Oddly even though I am a paid IGKT member, that login didn't allow me to login and access the forums. I had to register again and then i could post. It's there right above Agent Smiths recent post... that guy gets around! Thx
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