Scientists discover how knots work

DSMc

Well-Known Member

Finally, we will be able to understand how this rope stuff works.


"It seems like humans just lucked out and discovered some good knots," says Patil, "but it's kind of unclear how."
 

Burrapeg

Well-Known Member
I love reading about new discoveries in the scientific world but the arrogance they display and lack of appreciation for knowledge gained, prior to their double-blind experiments pisses me off.
Yeah, amazingly stupid statement that it is unclear how humans discovered some good knots. Duh, how about many centuries of trial and error? Same way we discovered a zillion other things, which mushrooms are poison, which soil is best for which crop, etc., etc. etc. Science is so specialized now that the guys who are the deepest into it are so narrowly focused that they have trouble in the real world. I went to university with a guy that ended up at NASA as an aerospace engineer. He was the best at what he did but honestly could not even order a hamburger unsupervised. He would sort of blink at the daylight outdoors and look around confused, like a mole that comes out of its hole.
 

*useless info*

Well-Known Member
i think this will give a window into this tiny knot world. Would gladly have some of this rope and even a Nip meter designed for testing evenness of pressure along length of pinch rollers, to trace Knot Nips.
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i think man was tying knots before mastering fire, wheel, lever of even speech communication. Some animals do weave things to nest etc. man took further. And was clothing and sheltering with weaves that carried into maintaining feeding and survival with working knots. We probably mimicked this, and not in born; but i don't think walking up on our 2 stilts upright is in born, just shows how early we start mimicking! Even to reading own bod and adjusting to imitate walking; some even w/o urging!
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i think knotting is the original technology outside of own self, for a series of steps to do correctly, in order or fails.
But, also too, the original linking of properties and their values together to larger whole or new tool usage, outside of own self.
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Even today, a computer program is a list of combined steps in order, to larger machine of work. So, once understand how something works in field, to me the setup is invoking mechanical commands, that will commence like a computer program and play out, once switch is pushed and mechanical program powered up. From this imagery, things happen/don't in rigging, cuz of how we wrote the mechanical program to be computed by Nature, loaded it, and it ran, or crashed faithfully per rules!
 
I wish I had that access to that kinda research back in the 90's when I was teaching military mountaineering in the army. There was always some smart ass West Point butter bar questioning the practicality of our techniques. What they failed to realize was that we had to teach to the dumbest common denominator. And generally the dumbest common denominator was them.
 

Bart_

Member
This thread was Spidey bait. And there you are! I never knew there was a pure math field that ignored material properties in studying a knot. It seems the first paper is bridging the gap between the purist math and finite element analysis by using their "beads" but ignoring inner fiber friction is an oversight in my opinion. However, stuff like this occurs in baby steps where you try to get some basics right before adding another complicating factor. The factor of twist brings back recall of the thread Hitch with a Twist although this is a bit different. Curious what construction their color changing rope was, kernmantle or double braid probably and not twisted lay(?) three strand. Couldn't really see the fibers in the video. I'd say that coming up with a workable performance predicting method is a step of progress. Now a cool next step would be to make test rope with the strain color layer not right at the surface , but down a bit with the top layer clear so you could see what's going on inside the guts of the rope. If they could match the fiber characteristics to say a typical polyester or nylon so as not to invalidate the results for practical marketplace ropes.

I still think it is a monumental challenge to accurately model a real rope and don't know of anyone managing to do it yet. Yep, sitting on the couch in the middle of winter.
 

SWRLS

New Member
The author, in my opinion seams to be the type that can't formulate on his own, has always been told how / when to do stuff that he lacks the ability to work out a problem on his own with out a pre written procedure. I mean give the write mind time and they will always reinvent the posses better. That's how everything gets better... The sailor he refers to for example, the author does not see that when this guy is at see on his down time has realy nothing to do, so he picks up a rope and just starts playing with it and eventually finds a combination in twists and bends and has that eureka moment... Sadly more and more people are like this author and less like the adventurous type that will leave all they know behind venture in to the unknown and come back with the posses for others to follow, much like the people who leave one civilization and go form newer better ones throughout history.
 

Tuebor

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I don't know if he's referring to the study's author or the article author, but it's a weird reaction, nonetheless.
 

*useless info*

Well-Known Member
There is a lot we don't know/see of this inner world; as have chased microbes and sea to see those inner worlds.
>>i hope this new tool will grow to show many things and turn on many lights of understanding.


QuantaMagazine.org/color-changing-material-unites-the-math-and-physics-of-knots-20200210/
i always visualize some passing of load force across friction points as alternate routing
>>thus not all running trace of full deformity to pass force, but rather shortcut around some with part of force
 

*useless info*

Well-Known Member
i think i see more clearly theory of force transfer thru the friction contact theory
>>rather than just running a trace of force thru deformity view.
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Even confirming views can beckon to look further;
headed in right direction.
Even if 'know' something, i still think seeing something (so much more clearly) is believing (more).
 

SomethingWitty

Arkansawyer
Are we actually seeing something we didn't already know?
Most people are.
Thetreespyder sees all ropes like we see that color changing stuff. He has been covering this stuff for a long time in infographics.

People who really care about ropes are either laughing, mad, or too busy actually using ropes to care what sort of attitude these scientists have.
 
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