Pulling a leaner with multiple ropes

jmcscrap

Well-Known Member
Location
Woodbury, MN
Looking to see how others or if anyone has put multiple ropes in a tree to pull over a leaner. I can pull into a wide open space against the lean - but it’s a solid 50/50 codom with nothing in the middle. I’m pretty sure pulling from one of the leads would work, but I’d like to be positive! The bigger question to this is how you keep the same or close to the same tension on each rope? The fork starts low enough that I wouldn’t be gaining much leverage.
 

Reach

Well-Known Member
Location
Atglen, PA
We have pulled difficult backleaners with multiple ropes, when the fall direction was critical and the tree was likely to fall the wrong direction with only one rope.

Also, on occasion we have set one rope around both stems to pull a codom over. We just set one rope with a running bowline around both stems and allowed the tree to compress when we pulled it. An alternative would be to set two short ropes or slings on the stems and attach them to one rope that you use to pull the tree over.
 

Crimsonking

Well-Known Member
If squeezing a running bowline causes you concern in a particular situation, you can tie a large bowline that is not cinching. I will do a full wrap on both stems before tying the bowline about twice the spread of the stems away from them. In this scenario a Yosemite finish gives me a little more peace of mind, though I don’t know if it does anything to help.
 

pete3d

Member
Location
Hinchinbrooke
Not being able to “see” your tree this is pure conjecture, but for what it’s worth:

Sometimes putting a ratchet strap around both leads and pretensioning it helps.

Anchoring each end of a suitably long rope to each lead and then attaching the “middle” of it to your winch rope using a pulley will guarantee an equal pull on both leads.

I always anchor a tag line to the tree (for unforeseen contingencies) just under my winch line anchor point, and if unsure, in a case like this a tag line for each lead might be appropriate.
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
Administrator
A component of felling that I came up with was called 'Ripping the Hinge'

there are so many options for the rest of the pull-over, I'm not going to address them right now.

In order to maintain control of the pull and tip over I'd leave a really thick hinge...not vertically, keep the apex and back cut lined up like normal. THe holding wood is left thick to keep the tree attached while it's being pulled over by the mechanical advantage of choice. Start making the back cut/s and take up the slack as the cut progresses. You want to keep the trunk hinging not falling the whole time. If the felling cut and pull are done right the trunk doesn't move on its own until its at least 20 degrees forward of plumb.

ON one job I added guy ropes on the back too. they were rigged to friction devices..two stem takedown... and there was a three way team...cutter...pullers...tensioners. We kept the stems under our control until they were forward. Then the tensioning teams on the backside took off their ropes and cleared away.
Setting up that one took some time and lots of throwline sets. What we gained was much less mess and the top of the tree was soooo much closer to the street because of the flop rather than all being dropped around the trunks.
 

27RMT0N

Well-Known Member
Location
WA
I think others have covered the situation pretty well, one more note I'd add is to be backing up the tree with wedges as the kerf opens. Depending on what you are overcoming in terms of backlean (if any): cut some, pull some, wedge some. Everything works together to keep the tree under control through the whole process.
 

Serf Life

Well-Known Member
Location
Maine Island
If squeezing a running bowline causes you concern in a particular situation, you can tie a large bowline that is not cinching. I will do a full wrap on both stems before tying the bowline about twice the spread of the stems away from them. In this scenario a Yosemite finish gives me a little more peace of mind, though I don’t know if it does anything to help.
Likewise, big bowline and strap the base if needed
 

ConeCollector

Active Member
A component of felling that I came up with was called 'Ripping the Hinge'

there are so many options for the rest of the pull-over, I'm not going to address them right now.

In order to maintain control of the pull and tip over I'd leave a really thick hinge...not vertically, keep the apex and back cut lined up like normal. THe holding wood is left thick to keep the tree attached while it's being pulled over by the mechanical advantage of choice. Start making the back cut/s and take up the slack as the cut progresses. You want to keep the trunk hinging not falling the whole time. If the felling cut and pull are done right the trunk doesn't move on its own until its at least 20 degrees forward of plumb.

ON one job I added guy ropes on the back too. they were rigged to friction devices..two stem takedown... and there was a three way team...cutter...pullers...tensioners. We kept the stems under our control until they were forward. Then the tensioning teams on the backside took off their ropes and cleared away.
Setting up that one took some time and lots of throwline sets. What we gained was much less mess and the top of the tree was soooo much closer to the street because of the flop rather than all being dropped around the trunks.
I might be venturing into some treacherous waters here: I was taught the same technique that you described here Tom for back leaning and side leaning trees. I have plenty of fond memories of cranking the GRCS when there was a 6” hinge... Since then though and with the instruction of Tony I have moved to a open notch with a thin hinge 5-7% of DBH. I follow my back cut with wedges, they are taking a large portion of the load, while simultaneously pulling the M.A. A thin hing is ample to keep a tree attached to the stump, while allowing for bending of the wood fibers. The thicker hinge appears to introduce cracks and leads to a pop and jerk motion.

So: wedges, open notch, thing hing, smooth pull, tree go where it was gunned.
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
Administrator
A thin hinge is ample to keep a tree attached to the stump,

You're right..keep things attached and in control. Whatever the thickness of hingewood is needed to accomplish that.

Another memory...single stem spruce or pine...open face...rip the hinge.

the tree was pulled over slowly until the face closed but the hinge didn't break. The stem was left attached while the branches were skinned off. Nice not to have the branches turned into spring poles. there was very little mess too. after the branches were skinned the trunk was chunked from tip to stump. Never had a saw near the street and no spring pole wood either. Very methodical and controlled.

Learning how an open-face changes dynamics reduced ripping the hinge. Add in wedges too.

My first formal learning about hinges and felling was from D Douglas Dent: Professional Timber Falling.
 

colb

Well-Known Member
Location
Florida
I jacked, wedged, and pulled a dead red oak with slight back lean towards a hpuse with two lines once. I put one line high for leverage and one low in case the high one broke the dead wood. Worked well. Agree about leaving a thick hinge. Also, not jacking the hinge off the stump.
 

Tony

Well-Known Member
Location
Lancaster, PA
Looking to see how others or if anyone has put multiple ropes in a tree to pull over a leaner. I can pull into a wide open space against the lean - but it’s a solid 50/50 codom with nothing in the middle. I’m pretty sure pulling from one of the leads would work, but I’d like to be positive! The bigger question to this is how you keep the same or close to the same tension on each rope? The fork starts low enough that I wouldn’t be gaining much leverage.
I have used one rope each end tied to a stem. Then used a block as an “equalizer” with a pull line off of the sling bushing.

Be careful with hinge thickness. Until wood fibers start to bend they are not a hinge, but will need to pull or break for the tree to move. Exerting the necessary force to do this can lead to other complications.

I will second the simultaneous use of wedges as you pull


If you decide the strap the stems together be aware that when gravity takes over and slams the trunks into the ground, ratchet straps have a habit of blowing apart and sending the broken hooks flying. Make sure that possibility is accounted for in your plan. I would use chain and wedges if it needed the down low support.

Tony
 

Crimsonking

Well-Known Member
I have used one rope each end tied to a stem. Then used a block as an “equalizer” with a pull line off of the sling bushing.

Be careful with hinge thickness. Until wood fibers start to bend they are not a hinge, but will need to pull or break for the tree to move. Exerting the necessary force to do this can lead to other complications.

I will second the simultaneous use of wedges as you pull


If you decide the strap the stems together be aware that when gravity takes over and slams the trunks into the ground, ratchet straps have a habit of blowing apart and sending the broken hooks flying. Make sure that possibility is accounted for in your plan. I would use chain and wedges if it needed the down low support.

Tony
I like the pull rope setup you described. I hope to get to use that soon.
 

Dan Cobb

Well-Known Member
Location
Hoover
I pulled a tall, thin, severely leaning pine with what I think is a pretty cool 2 rope setup. Tree had to lay against the lean due to a privacy fence and power lines, but it could not be pulled directly in the desired direction; that would just pull the canopy further into the canopy of an adjacent pine. I redirected the pull line with a pulley attached to another line "anchored" in a friction device. The redirect allowed me to pull the leaner around the interfering canopy then slack off the redirect in a couple of stages while hauling the pull line. Of course this only worked because I was able to bend the tree enough to get it around the interfering canopy after notching and a slight back cut. I didn't have it down to anything resembling a hinge that could be failed by the initial off axis pull.
 

Crimsonking

Well-Known Member
I pulled a tall, thin, severely leaning pine with what I think is a pretty cool 2 rope setup. Tree had to lay against the lean due to a privacy fence and power lines, but it could not be pulled directly in the desired direction; that would just pull the canopy further into the canopy of an adjacent pine. I redirected the pull line with a pulley attached to another line "anchored" in a friction device. The redirect allowed me to pull the leaner around the interfering canopy then slack off the redirect in a couple of stages while hauling the pull line. Of course this only worked because I was able to bend the tree enough to get it around the interfering canopy after notching and a slight back cut. I didn't have it down to anything resembling a hinge that could be failed by the initial off axis pull.
That’s fun. I floated a tree out of the woods in a similar fashion. Our winch path wasn’t straight, so I redirected it the same way. We floated the whole tree because there was no way to get the material up the slope otherwise. It was cool to watch it pivot.
 
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