Proper collar cut for vertical stem?

MikoDel

New member
Location
SE PA
The way i have this outlined... would that be a correct cut to allow healing? The homeowner used what little crotch is left to re-hang his VLF antenna, but i could always sling the tree to create an attachment point for him, and make the cut properly.
 

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oldoakman

Been here a while
Location
Alorgia
That is a codominant stem. There is no branch collar there. The proper cut in that instance would be to imagine a line perpendicular to the bottom end of the existing bark ridge angled up to just outside the bark ridge at the top of the ridge. As it is, there will eventually be a lot of decay happening on the side where the stem was removed.
 
That is a codominant stem. There is no branch collar there. The proper cut in that instance would be to imagine a line perpendicular to the bottom end of the existing bark ridge angled up to just outside the bark ridge at the top of the ridge. As it is, there will eventually be a lot of decay happening on the side where the stem was removed.
From my understanding, the more angled cut is not preferable as is it creates a larger wound to compartmentalize and the water run off is of little concern with regards to decay. At least that's what I recall hearing Dr. Ed Gilman say.
 
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Cut one differently and come back in a year or two and see where the dead tissue is. Do this with a Red or Sugar Maple and it will tell you exactly where you should have cut.
I agree with starting just outside of the branch bark ridge and that it will vary upon tree species etc. Nature has a beautiful way of teaching when we stop and observe. I probably missinterpreted what you're trying to get across regarding the angle, I thought you were contradicting the guy that wrote the books/BMP's on tree pruning. At the end of the day, it's not an exact science and there's always exceptions to the rule.
 

evo

Been here a while
Location
My Island, WA
I’m going to say while everyone’s suggestions are text book, there is no proper pruning cut for this stem. Odds are very high that it will rot out well before it has a chance to callus. There is even a valid argument to allow the callus to climb the stub
 

oldoakman

Been here a while
Location
Alorgia
I’m going to say while everyone’s suggestions are text book, there is no proper pruning cut for this stem. Odds are very high that it will rot out well before it has a chance to callus. There is even a valid argument to allow the callus to climb the stub
Shigo used to preach the "Tool to make a proper cut has yet to be invented."
 

evo

Been here a while
Location
My Island, WA
I regularly ponder this, esp with larger cuts.
Personally in my area I diverge in two different ways when making cuts like the this. First I avoid it, but if it’s the only option I’ll leave a big ass stub and try to do my best weighing out how nature would break it and doing the least amount of harm. The end result is much like a mini habitat snag on a living tree.
The second is trying to find a node or cluster of laintent bids to get it to sucker out, obviously this require management. But it buys time for the decay to advance and new growth rings for wall 4
 

Here's one of the Ed Gilman videos I was thinking about regarding removal of stems. He says to make the cut a small as possible, typically perpendicular to the axis of the removed stem.
Slightly off topic but he also shows some proper reduction cuts and says the research indicates that the angle is really not that important with regards to decay. But that less of an angle is generally preferred #1 in photo as opposed to the ANSI standard #2 example as it's a smaller injury to compartmentalize. With exception to certain species such as maple where you may get some dieback. As we've previously stated, it's not an exact science.
 

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ATH

Been here a while
Location
Ohio
1) I agree @evo - try to avoid making that cut. Even if there is just are just a few branches left above it - not enough weight to pull it down, it is better to keep that alive than open that big of a wound on the trunk.
2) A chainsaw can make that cut using the bottom corner of the nose.
3) I wonder about leaving stubs on larger diameter cuts - ones we know will never fully compartmentalize. Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of research out there. The people who have done the most research and have written the most (that I am aware of ... Shigo and Gilman), but say the same thing. @KTSmith do you have any other data that suggests leaving large diameter stubs good/bad/indifferent? Here is a pic from Gilman's Illustrated Guide to Pruning.

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ATH

Been here a while
Location
Ohio
So, for discussion sake, what is that a good example of?

Great picture to highlight the difficulty of a "prefect answer" in my opinion.

The near side shows where Gilman and Shigo say it should be cut. That is where most of the response growth is happening. However, it sure looks like the far side suggests if left a little taller, the tree can still "creep" over the stub like @evo described. And it shows the tree isn't compartmentalizing that before decay settles in.

Yes...this is an sample of 1 - but I'm sure we've all seen similar...and different reactions in similar circumstances.
 

Lupin_IV

Participating member
Location
St Paul
So, for discussion sake, what is that a good example of?

Great picture to highlight the difficulty of a "prefect answer" in my opinion.

The near side shows where Gilman and Shigo say it should be cut. That is where most of the response growth is happening. However, it sure looks like the far side suggests if left a little taller, the tree can still "creep" over the stub like @evo described. And it shows the tree isn't compartmentalizing that before decay settles in.

Yes...this is an sample of 1 - but I'm sure we've all seen similar...and different reactions in similar circumstances.
Sorry, should’ve been more specific.

Indeed - a good example of how difficult it is to see where to make the proper cut.

As I’m interpreting, the collar appears to show the first referenced Gilman diagram is slightly more accurate, in this case. I may be misinterpreting.

Not saying this photo indicates where to make this cut every time on every tree. I gather it’s species specific and branch location specific.

However this instance was referenced directly in this thread, and gives the OP a general visual idea beyond a diagram.

There was quite the cavity in there. I imagine it would still be there if the angled cut was made but who knows. I haven’t seen this scenario with the angled cut healed on this species. The search continues.

Also to note, the collar was even on both sides. This cut was made over 8 years ago. The tree is my next door neighbors.
 

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