Overtime

I remember when I was a young climber and I would take any overtime I could get!
That was a long time ago, now I am in management and I have a really have a hard time getting guys to do overtime, maybe it is the times but very frustrating,
I guess I just had to rant because there is so much work.
I know smaller company's can get guys to do overtime, but it seems like the guys that have full time jobs are happy with 40 hours and can not put in any overtime.
We are a big company and overtime is really needed,
I also recognize that our best climbers all do side work and will often use ground guys that they regularly work with,(i.e, co-workers),
I get it, but hey,
So basically, where is the loyalty and should it even be considered when doing a review,
Everyone wants a raise, so a raise a raise means more responsibilities,
Thoughts,
Jeff
 

Boomslang

Well-Known Member
Early 20s I would do 50-70 hour weeks without a thought. Now that I'm older and wiser I only take overtime when really necessary. If I'm not making enough money to be comfortable at 40 hrs, I'm at the wrong job. I have a family, I have hobbies, I have other interests outside of work. I work to live, not live to work.
 
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rope-a-dope

Well-Known Member
Kidding! I have been struggling a long time with an oppressive schedule. Overtime is just not worth it for most guys because after a certain point you need the rest more than the money... its not like OT one week means a light one after...
 

christreez

Active Member
I remember when I was a young climber and I would take any overtime I could get!
That was a long time ago, now I am in management and I have a really have a hard time getting guys to do overtime, maybe it is the times but very frustrating,
I guess I just had to rant because there is so much work.
I know smaller company's can get guys to do overtime, but it seems like the guys that have full time jobs are happy with 40 hours and can not put in any overtime.
We are a big company and overtime is really needed,
I also recognize that our best climbers all do side work and will often use ground guys that they regularly work with,(i.e, co-workers),
I get it, but hey,
So basically, where is the loyalty and should it even be considered when doing a review,
Everyone wants a raise, so a raise a raise means more responsibilities,
Thoughts,
Jeff
I wish we got the ot we used to! The first couple years with my company we did 5 tens plus half day Saturday plus the occasion long day. Now that I'm making virtually double then when I started as a groundman, that ot would be awesome! At this point, in our area, we are just about the only legit company not going 6 days 50 to 60 hrs a week. Plus I'm the only one who's not afraid of rain or cold it's kinda pathetic really. Doesn't help that half the people I work with are all married to woman who make 60k+ so nobody really is very hungry.

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evo

Well-Known Member
I pay over time after 8 per day and double over 40. I've paid my employees a total of 4 hours overtime in the past year. This also includes breaks and lunch, so only 7 hours "Work" time.
 

christreez

Active Member
I pay over time after 8 per day and double over 40. I've paid my employees a total of 4 hours overtime in the past year. This also includes breaks and lunch, so only 7 hours "Work" time.
You hiring? Lol always wanted a paid lunch.

We r ot after 40 double on sundays I've never worked a sunday. Paid holidays but then that screws up the ot after 40 for us they used to do it after 32 but got cheap but this year our secretary (one owners wife) is going back to after 32 with out talking to the other owners (the cheap ones...) shhhhh, it's still a secret.

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evo

Well-Known Member
You hiring? Lol always wanted a paid lunch.

We r ot after 40 double on sundays I've never worked a sunday. Paid holidays but then that screws up the ot after 40 for us they used to do it after 32 but got cheap but this year our secretary (one owners wife) is going back to after 32 with out talking to the other owners (the cheap ones...) shhhhh, it's still a secret.

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yeah but only PT.. 25-32 per wk
housing is impossible to find.

Technically, if given 30 minutes and not allowed to leave the work place it has to be paid in WA... I'd be damned if employees drove to the job site, sure they can go for a walk, but it's too grey. I personally also work through lunch sometimes, give the employee's the option to stop for lunch if they like, this also keeps that covered too... (even though I legally should dictate they stop and sit on their ass for 30)
 

CanadianStan

Well-Known Member
yeah but only PT.. 25-32 per wk
housing is impossible to find.

Technically, if given 30 minutes and not allowed to leave the work place it has to be paid in WA... I'd be damned if employees drove to the job site, sure they can go for a walk, but it's too grey. I personally also work through lunch sometimes, give the employee's the option to stop for lunch if they like, this also keeps that covered too... (even though I legally should dictate they stop and sit on their ass for 30)
ANSI A1200: You SHALL sit and ingest food.

On a serious note, I learned long ago that my guys are much more productive in the afternoon if i do force them to take a lunch, have some water and hang out in the shade. Plus it’s a good time to bring the crew together, laughing, chatting, joking, things that aren’t always possible with the 1890 roaring and the 660s howling
 

evo

Well-Known Member
ANSI A1200: You SHALL sit and ingest food.

On a serious note, I learned long ago that my guys are much more productive in the afternoon if i do force them to take a lunch, have some water and hang out in the shade. Plus it’s a good time to bring the crew together, laughing, chatting, joking, things that aren’t always possible with the 1890 roaring and the 660s howling
It’s rare. More like when we are done at 1 or 2 in the afternoon, it makes more since to keep moving
 

ward

Well-Known Member
Jeff, your question pertains to attitudes towards tree work in small business vs. large business and why overtime is not sought by employees in your larger business. I'm going to offer an explanation, but don't really know if it is true. Smaller tree services survive more on the shoulder seasons of Spring and Fall than do the larger businesses. Their contracts sprawl out into winter in ways that the little guys don't. That sense of urgency--of survival--is broadcast from the small business owner to the crew throughout the Spring and Fall because the work, like a salmon run, is suddenly there. When your 40 hours is guaranteed by the nature of the utility throughout the year, there is no sense of urgency ever. But for those who live closer to the order of things (de rerum natura), there is no quarrel but only love when the overtime cometh. :) Peace.
 

Jehinten

Well-Known Member
It sounds like adding an additional crew would be more beneficial than your guys working overtime. You will get more work done and not have to pay overtime. I don't know your business, but I assume you do a mix of trimming and removals like most, you could always send the extra crew out with a 1 ton and a small chipper to cut down on start up cost for that crew and just have them handle the trimming jobs.
 

treebilly

Well-Known Member
Like already stated with the smaller outfits, al least in my area, winter is basically lay off time. So any and all overtime is welcome. Most smaller outfits don’t offer decent benefit packages. Some do. I can’t wrap my head around guys not wanting overtime. I cut my hours back this year but still average 45-50 in five days. The company I’m with has one contract that dictates our hours during their “season”. We are given two months to put down 6 months of work basically. I average 75-80 hours a week in Jan-Feb. this is followed up with a week off that I don’t bother using my vacation time for.
 

RBJtree

Well-Known Member
When I worked for other people, I almost never got overtime. Most companies I worked for didn't want overtime. They wanted us to work hard for 40 hours. If a tree worker is actually working hard for 40 hours in a week, they are spent. Tired. There is a greatly diminished return at that point. You are paying overtime wage and getting less work done. Not to mention, fatigued workers have far more accidents. Overworked people also get injuries far more often. Often just the physical stress related injuries like tendonitis or fasheitus, but those can be debilitating injuries that reduce productivity, morale, and quality of life. If you can't hire enough people to get the work done, charge more. You will then get less work, but make more money and improve the quality of the market for all tree service providers. If your crews can't get enough work done in 40 hours, perhaps they aren't motivated. Maybe they suck. Maybe that's why I don't have many employees. When the owner is on the job, we fuckin work.
 

Scheffa

Active Member
Completely agree with RBJ,
My crews work a standard week of 45 hours doing utility work here in aus, come Friday everyone is spent. On the occasion that we will work 12 days straight when we are away from home, the decline in productivity is noticeable, people start getting irritated easily and the likely hood of an injury or accident rise accordingly.

There are times when I won’t allow my boys to work ot as part of my fatigue management
 

treehumper

Well-Known Member
A point about loyalty. Many of the younger generations, xers and millennials were raised at a time when loyalty was a waste. Parents laid off or RE-engineered out of a career while loyalty was what they gave to these companies. It was taught that loyalty returns nothing. So no surprise they don’t offer it.
Add people instead of overworking those you have.
 

Leroy

Well-Known Member
That is actually something recommended to those of us who entered the job market during recession, to move jobs a lot especially in the beginning. It worked for me, I bounced around in my first 3 or 4 years and got a healthy raise each time. Once I maxed out the local limit of wagery twas time to enter self employment.

The state of wage working in this time and place is abhorrent. I think we're due for a radical change, flat wages and all that.
 

Boomslang

Well-Known Member
Another word on loyalty. I'm much more likely to be loyal to a smaller company where I interact with the owner on a personal level daily. The more transparency within a company, the more loyal I'm likely to be. The more mutual respect that is shown to me, the more loyal I'm likely to be. In my view, as bitter and jaded as it might sound, larger companies tend to just view me as employee XXXX, with expected production levels of YYYY, and damn him if he wants a life away from work. In response to being treated expendable I treat the company as expendable. Just as there are guys out there to fill my position, there are companies out there willing to hire me.
 
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