Minimizing the dreaded carabiner and pulley flop...suggestions?

Zebco Kid

New member
Location
Novato
Hello All,

For some reason I think it's important to declare that I'm a recreational climber. With that, I'm interested in being super versatile in the canopy, and moving smoothly wherever I want. Sort of embarrassing when I think pros are reading this.

I am now climbing both DRT and SRT. On my belt I have a number of ways to ascend. They include Rope Wrench, ZigZag (primary mechanisms for both climbing systems), Hitch Climber Pulley (used for DRT when employing the other end of the rope...as the Zig Zag can't be added or removed midline), then there is my 22' DEDA lanyard. On the short end, I have a Snap and ART positioner. On the long end I have a pulley and carabiners.

All of this is to say that everything is nice and smooth with one exception. I find the DRT carabiner and pulley combination flops around and I have to keep an eye on equipment not shifting into a side load position...or just getting tangled in some strange way.

Is there a way to stabilize the carabiners and pulley? I suppose I can purchase another hitch climber pulley, but it seems that carrying two is a bit over the top. One thing I don't want to do is compromise the 22' lanyard by switching the hitch climber pulley back and forth...which I have done. Not an elegant solution.

Any thoughts, ideas, solutions?

Thank you,
 
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Zebco Kid

New member
Location
Novato
Reach, the slack comes with each step up with the foot ascender. At that moment, there is no tension on the line as I’m moving up, thus slack is created. It is the sitback that removes the slack leading to the flop. It’s not a lot of slack, but enough to all for the carabiners to shift about. This doesn’t happen with the hitch climber pulley as all ropes and biners are connected to the same spot.
 

Lupin_IV

Participating member
Location
St Paul
Reach, the slack comes with each step up with the foot ascender. At that moment, there is no tension on the line as I’m moving up, thus slack is created. It is the sitback that removes the slack leading to the flop. It’s not a lot of slack, but enough to all for the carabiners to shift about. This doesn’t happen with the hitch climber pulley as all ropes and biners are connected to the same spot.
I’m slightly confused. Is your drt system connected to a ring on your bridge or directly to your rope bridge at two places?
 

moss

Been here a while
This is not answering your question but I would consider simplifying from the DEDA lanyard to a single ended lanyard. You have your main system, you can have a single ended lanyard, you have the tail of your main climbing line available for a third tie-in if needed. That’s pretty heavy-duty life support coverage and canopy mobility without bringing a DEDA lanyard and more complexity into the mix.

Can you tell I don’t like DEDA lanyards? I don’t like “closed loops” of line hanging off of me, a clean line end is so much easier to manage.
-AJ
 

moss

Been here a while
Reach, the slack comes with each step up with the foot ascender. At that moment, there is no tension on the line as I’m moving up, thus slack is created. It is the sitback that removes the slack leading to the flop. It’s not a lot of slack, but enough to all for the carabiners to shift about. This doesn’t happen with the hitch climber pulley as all ropes and biners are connected to the same spot.

How do you advance your Rope Wrench when you climb SRT? Advance your DRT lanyard hitch (when there is no hitchclimber pulley involved) the same way.
-AJ
 

Zebco Kid

New member
Location
Novato
This is not answering your question but I would consider simplifying from the DEDA lanyard to a single ended lanyard. You have your main system, you can have a single ended lanyard, you have the tail of your main climbing line available for a third tie-in if needed. That’s pretty heavy-duty life support coverage and canopy mobility without bringing a DEDA lanyard and more complexity into the mix.

Can you tell I don’t like DEDA lanyards? I don’t like “closed loops” of line hanging off of me, a clean line end is so much easier to manage.
-AJ
Hey Moss,

I’m sure you’re right. At this stage of my recreational climbing career (rookie), I like the idea of more ways to secure myself (redundancy). I’m out there by myself, and it makes me feel more secure.

I actually “love” my DEDA setup. With a total of 22’, with 8 going toward my “go to” ISC snap and ART positioner, and 14 available for the other end, managed by a hitchcord and pulley - plus the 8’ if needed, it’s a super versatile setup. In fact, the Snap/ART/DEDA/Hitchcord/22’ Blaze rope is my favorite piece of my rig.

As I’m recreational climbing, and not on the clock, the managment and creativity associated with the options is part of my pleasure.

I simply want to get rid of the sloppy “flop.”

As with many activities, I’m sure the future will have a less equipment intensive approach. You know, back to a rope, a saddle, 2 carabiners and a Blake’s hitch. It is then that you will find my “versatility” on Craigslist/eBay for pennies on the dollar. Smile!
 

moss

Been here a while
Hey Moss,

I’m sure you’re right. At this stage of my recreational climbing career (rookie), I like the idea of more ways to secure myself (redundancy). I’m out there by myself, and it makes me feel more secure.

I actually “love” my DEDA setup. With a total of 22’, with 8 going toward my “go to” ISC snap and ART positioner, and 14 available for the other end, managed by a hitchcord and pulley - plus the 8’ if needed, it’s a super versatile setup. In fact, the Snap/ART/DEDA/Hitchcord/22’ Blaze rope is my favorite piece of my rig.

As I’m recreational climbing, and not on the clock, the managment and creativity associated with the options is part of my pleasure.

I simply want to get rid of the sloppy “flop.”

As with many activities, I’m sure the future will have a less equipment intensive approach. You know, back to a rope, a saddle, 2 carabiners and a Blake’s hitch. It is then that you will find my “versatility” on Craigslist/eBay for pennies on the dollar. Smile!
Understood! As mentioned in my other response you could attach something from whatever you use as your Rope Wrench advancer to hold up your floppy hitch on the DEDA.
-AJ
 

Zebco Kid

New member
Location
Novato
Right! I'll explore that. I will also play with another idea of attaching a small hitch cord on the working end to self tend.

Oh my...I think I need to create a list of tests to perform on my next outing.

Thank you.
 
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Burrapeg

Been here a while
Location
Puget Sound
I rec climb too and have slowly refined my gear issues, especially since I have to hike quite a ways sometimes while carrying everything. I have tried various combos over the last four years in an effort to both reduce gear load while staying as versatile as possible. For sure, I wanted to retain the ability to swap immediately from SRT going up to DdRT when moving around. So I have lately been using a double ended 120 ft line with ZZ on each end, and carrying a RW. I can go up on the ZZ/RW, then lanyard in and remove the RW, bringing the rope back to the ZZ for DdRT limb walking or otherwise positioning, and also sending the tail higher up with the second ZZ for moving a TIP up. That and my MiniSAKA, a foot ascender, and a 10 ft single ended Moss-style lanyard are usually the main components. Unfortunately, I live near WesSpur's show room and have accumulated all sorts of other irresistible goodies which come into play on specific trees. I probably have quite a few grand tied up in stuff. But still a relatively cheap pastime, given what many of my neighbors have spent on golf carts, fancy big motorcycles, airplanes, and giant RV's.
 

Winchman

Branched out member
I use an anchor hitch to secure my 15' Mercury safety lanyard to the carabiner, then I whip the tail to the spine. That cured the floppies for me.

I only use the safety lanyard after getting to place where I'm going to hang out for a while or for work positioning when I'm not directly below my TIP.

Edited after reading Cereal Killer's post below.
 
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Cereal_Killer

Branched out member
Location
Ohio
What's the point of being double tied in while you actively advance up your main line? Positioning is one reason like if you're not climbing straight up but if it's just for backup /redundancy it's not needed. That is assuming your TIP isn't questionable, as a rec climber you shouldn't be climbing on questionable TIP's though. IMO having a second life line thay you drag with you through brush and shit will hold you back from progressing as a climber...
If you have a for-sure good tie in point and you're gear is setup correctly you're really doing yourself a disservice learning the habit of being needlessly double tied in all the time.

You've gotta trust your equipment, that single lifeline is more than sufficient and will make life easier, lanyard(s) are for final work positioning. When I'm fucking around swinging and shit during a rec climb the only reason a lanyard even comes out is for temporary life support while advancing / adjusting my main line. If I need a second point of attachment for a significant part of the rec climb I'll more than likely setup a floating anchor instead. I enjoy complicated rigging, that's what I seek out in a rec climb so I get it if you don't want to do that but it's no harder than tending two systems that are at different angles in the canopy and need to take different routes and pass different limbs as you move about clipping and unclipping over and over.

I know you're not in a hurry like us production guys but a easier climb is a more enjoyable and longer lasting climbing experience. Needlessly advancing a second system just for backup is adding to your workload meaning you can enjoy more of your time up there if you cut it out!

On the other hand; I learn best from the school of hard knocks, some times you need a good 6 years or so of dragging a second system around the tree for absolutely no reason to learn not to do that anymore lol!
 

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