[knotless rigging] 'Ultrasling' lanyards "instead of" half-hitch & bolan for routine rigging?

eyehearttrees

Active Member
Location
Tampa-Area
Ideally I'm hoping someone's got some reference to some testing Re strength #'s for various ways of roping a log, at any rate I'm looking to protect the tail end of my bullrope by rigging in a manner where the cut-piece is roped with a separate sling and then just use a D-shackle or something to clip that to the end of my spliced bullrope. Have seen pics of what appears to be people using Ultraslings, looks like you can do the '2 wraps on cut piece' setup usually done with half-hitch & bolan but simply uses the Ultrasling pockets, I've been trying to envision using one that way and seems it'd be:
- super quick to set on the piece you're cutting, and
- as strong or stronger than any traditional bullrope knotting and probably stronger than my current approach (which is a half-hitch, finished by connecting the soft eye of my bullrope to the standing leg with a D-shackle...should probably have an o-ring or another d-shackle 'floating' on the bullrope to connect instead of making a half-hitch for my secondary knot, I imagine that would be the strongest since it'd eliminate all rope-on-rope....but the Ultrasling as a 'log wrap' is a double-rope bodied lanyard, if made with thick tec / t-rex then it would be as strong as you could need and, IIRC, this area is where your system should be weakest anyways, for safety, right? IE it's not smart to set your system so the weak point is an anchor, or the tree itself....weak point should be rope-to-load interface, iirc)

Thanks for any advice, there's actually an illustration of this in a magazine here's a pic of it just so we're clear, I'm talking of exactly this, just buying like 75' of t-rex or TEC and making several Ultraslings so you can use them, instead of your bullrope's tail-end, and still be getting full strength out of your bullrope & still quick/knotless..pic:
20201108_173446.jpg
It's ^ an advert for the nifty looking (but also bulky looking..but so are D-shackles/clevis shackles like I use!) Notch rig plate, I'd be aiming to do the same just using D's/clevis' to connect the end of the Ultra to the end of my bullrope. Looking at that ^pic, makes me think 'looks like it'd be *very* quick to set the rope and as-strong as any other rope-on-rope like normal hitching or even your knotless setup if it still has half-hitches' but w/ the Ultra the rope-on-rope isn't as bothersome since it's 2x the rope!

Thanks for thoughts, my good 5/8 bullrope can't take another piece being removed before it's PITB short, lol, so really wanna start doing 'clip-in' loads only with it!
 

eyehearttrees

Active Member
Location
Tampa-Area
Oh and meant to add/ask:
Anyone know of hard-#'s for Ultrasling strength when using 'the pockets' to cinch it?

For straight-pull, I have to imagine their ABS is > than the cordage's ABS (since there's basically 2 legs through the body), but I'm ignorant Re how brummels hold up for strength (or where the 'expected fail point' is on an Ultrasling)

Have some t-rex coming, was for a sling but now thinking to make a no-hardware Ultra for this use, would love people's opinions especially anyone who's doing this routinely (or who's tried & stopped! Maybe it's just easier to keep it to the end of your spliced bullrope and just replace it, than try extending its life this way?)
 

southsoundtree

Well-Known Member
Location
Olympia, WA
Looks like a way to sell gear.

Buy a bull rope with 25' extra. Cut the ends off it gets tattered. Idk how the ends need protecting. I keep my saw away from the rope.

By the time you're wearing out you ends, you've made your rope money back. Buy more.
 

eyehearttrees

Active Member
Location
Tampa-Area
Looks like a way to sell gear.

Buy a bull rope with 25' extra. Cut the ends off it gets tattered. Idk how the ends need protecting. I keep my saw away from the rope.

By the time you're wearing out you ends, you've made your rope money back. Buy more.
Even if you ignore the $$, it's far quicker to splice new 12S hollow-braid slings for the logs, than to re-splice eyes onto my DB bullrope :p

I do get your position & don't disagree with it, to each their own for sure, I'm newer and I'm not doing the best job making my $ back yet lol (am getting better at bidding but suffice to say I'm gonna ruin this 5/8 polydyne before I can "comfortably" replace it if I keep just using its spliced end to hitch pieces)
 

Jonny

Well-Known Member
Location
Buffalo
You’ll be home much sooner if you just use a running bowline. I bought a 600’ spool of double braid and it came with 6” eyes on each end. I haven’t the foggiest idea what to do with them, I’ll probably cut them off at 15 or 20’ and have some new dead eye slings that I also don’t need, but maybe one day. For now I just using the other end that isn’t spliced.

Knotless rigging is an interesting concept but I’ve yet to see a method that really shows any advantage.
 

TheTreeSpyder

Well-Known Member
Location
Florida>>> USA
i think of it as modular to use like small Dyneema or loopie 1" slings always have carabinier in for hanging on belt or connecting to rig line etc. Faster in hitch for ground return, send down several items at once or other trix. They unclip rig line from carabineers and return line to already waiting , rigged slings. Then start removing slings from last load(s) while already setting next.
.
But, would make Double Bowline w/Yosemite Tie Off (DBY) for fixed eye instead of spliced eye in rigging line tc connect carabiniers to. Heavier loads precede with Half Hitch or so as always.
.
Gives Double Bearing with a single pass, change mind on line up and slide to adjust, to best position. Many, many utility uses for small sing and carabinier presets. Committing to take up every trip was one of best things ever did.
 

Fivepoints

Well-Known Member
Loop runners are the best way to go knotless. Tie a steel biner to the end of your rigging line and just keep clipping away. I carry multiple runners so can have the next branch rigged up before the rope even gets back to me.
This! Absolutely speeds up thing on smaller rigging pieces. I bought some heavy duty version the other day to try out. I haven't used them yet but I think the swl was 2,800 lbs. I bought them to use in conjunction with 1/2" rig rope for pieces that are larger than we are comfortable doing on the 1" regular loop runners but aren't big enough to step up to larger rope.
 

TheTreeSpyder

Well-Known Member
Location
Florida>>> USA
Can bend lines to get more or less frictions, use as handles for hand, foot extra security connect as 3rd safety, get line taut with load on it and send another load down like speed line, sometimes knocking first free. Hitch main line near branches and connect 1 sling to a branch and other to other side of the hitch point on spar. cut limb and has now changed the balance of the load when hung and moved by hitch point. Many, many more ways to play them out than just a single rope and tie!
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Used to leave on ground and then have to factor in send up, ground control not as familiar etc. But once committed to taking them up every time, found oodles more things to sue the universal modular connector for. Committing to take up every trip was one of best things ever did.
 

Simpleiowaguy

Well-Known Member
Location
Vinton
I do it the same way as boomslang from the sounds of it. I just take some runners up with me and have the line and carabiner pulled back up to me
 

Mitch Hoy

Well-Known Member
Location
Rochester
I buy rope spliced at both ends. I have used iron wizards for years as the termination for my 1/2” rigging line, even negative rigging healthy size pieces. You just have to be aware of how choke angle affects the load of the connector- if there is a piece that is a small diameter but going to generate a lot of force, add a half hitch to distribute the force. There are not many pieces that fall into that category. Just like double wrapping a basal anchor, double wrapping any connection to a rigged piece can also dramatically reduce forces on the connector or knot.
When I am negative rigging really large stuff, I use a CMI quick shackle.
It is quicker than all other methods, especially when you factor time for ground crew working with your system. It is easier to cast your line into crotches that are out of reach. Most important to me, it is stress reducing because I find tying and untying systems tedious all day.
Fiori has a break test video of carabiners being loaded this way, I am sure there are others out there. Of course, I would never use a carabiner rated under any other part of my rigging system. The Iron wizard is rated for quite a bit more than any 1/2” double-braid rigging line.
It should also be noted that since this method is out of standards there are implications to its use and misuse, legal and otherwise.
 

Mitch Hoy

Well-Known Member
Location
Rochester
I keep looking at this shackle but haven't picked one up yet. What are your thoughts on it? Seems like it'd also make a nice shackle for crane work as you can't drop the pin.
They are nice, I have a couple. They are a little too beefy to be throwing around on the end of a 1/2” line all day but they are great for setting up a piece for negative rigging quick.
I actually haven’t used them for crane, when we get down to stem picks we use the crane company’s nylons and shackles. I am sure they would be slick...
 

colb

Well-Known Member
Location
Florida
They are nice, I have a couple. They are a little too beefy to be throwing around on the end of a 1/2” line all day but they are great for setting up a piece for negative rigging quick.
I actually haven’t used them for crane, when we get down to stem picks we use the crane company’s nylons and shackles. I am sure they would be slick...
Can the slick pin get pounded out while negative rigging?
 

Mitch Hoy

Well-Known Member
Location
Rochester
Can the slick pin get pounded out while negative rigging?
No, under no circumstances that I can think of can the slick pin take a load. Even if the shackle is loaded on its side, they engineered enough travel on the pin before the slick pin would be loaded. It’s a really well designed connector. Slick pins are only dicey to me in conditions just below freezing. I have had moisture from a glove freeze a slick pin down on a rope wrench at just sub 30 degrees before on a windy day.
 

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