I'm hoping to learn Re various chain-types for climbsaws (10"-->18" chain), not just "get Pro" but understanding the teeth/etc..

eyehearttrees

New member
Location
Tampa-Area
So far as I can tell there's really 4 variables for chains, in this order-of-importance (regarding cut-speed)

1 - size of tooth (3/8"LP, like all mine, versus 3/8" like I wish they were!)

2 - size of rakers ('pro' chains seem to have this as their primary advantage over 'safety/homeowner' chains, IE less raker so the chain can both cut faster and kick-back easier if you caught it up)

3 - pitch of the chain's links IE "teeth-per-inch" for the chain, and finally:

4 - gauge (the ubiquitous 0.05", or the thinner 0.043" -- BTW is it true you can kinda "interchange" from .5 to .43's? Like I have a polesaw that came with a 0.43 but so far as I can tell that's just the chain, the bar itself is a 0.5" track/rail...IF you 'can' interchange them, is it unwise to do so?)

I guess one could throw-in the angle of the tooth, IE a steeper angle is sharper but dulls quicker, so IMO that's more of a preferences thing than something that has "an optimal"..... But for maximizing how fast my 36cc 355t's 16" bar can go-through a 12" log, I know it would do it faster with a better chain than the "modded safety chains" I use (the 'mod' is simply me doing like 3-5 strokes of the file on the rakers when the chain is new, so it can take more wood (my 25cc can push a 16" no problem have played w/ that configuration on-job actually)

Thanks a ton for help understanding, I know I can "just go buy p9x1' oregon stuff, but want to actually understand this, am real curious Re chains' technicalities (and am still unable to understand why Pro-level climbsaws use the small-toothed 3/8" LP chains instead of something larger!)
 

eyehearttrees

New member
Location
Tampa-Area
Obviously I can alter raker height, or angle of the tooth, but had forgotten another "biggie" -- full V semi chisel chains... I'd thought ALL climbsaws were automatically semi-chisel, but then I found someone running the same big-climbsaw I do (355t) using full-chisel chain....all of my saws are plenty powerful for their bars, I can run very low rakers, would really prefer running better teeth w/ appropriate rakers instead of "attempting to 'get there'" by simply over-filing the rakers to make chains bite better..

(No I do not break chains in fact I cannot recall last / ever time that happened, but I also don't 'force' my saw like I see 4-outta-5 guys do when I do work with other crews..makes me cringe, I mean if you can HEAR that the saw is running at half speed and you keep bogging it lower than that, maybe pulling-back a lil to keep a proper chainspeed would be, I dunno, frickin' instinctive?!? Ugh so glad to have gone solo :D )

Thanks again for insight, sick of buying generic chains & filing rakers :p
 

AdkEric

Branched out member
Location
Adirondacks
It seems like you're a bit confused as to your "variables." Hopefully the PDF file attached works. It is sourced from Bailey's. If you read thru it, I think you should have a better understanding of chain types and measurements.



The below link is a cross reference chart, also from Bailey's.

 

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Birdyman88

Branched out member
Location
Arlington
^^^
For climbing saws, assuming top handle, they are ALL 3/8LP, except Stihl 150T which is 1/4". So it's easy, just choose one of each:

1) Full or semi chisel
2) Safety (regular depth gauge) or non-safety (depth gauge paired with a safety link)
3) .050 or .043 gauge

I vote Full, Safety, .050 Stihl PS3. Don't get fancy with rakers, just put to factory spec. Deep rakers on a climbing saw is kind of worrisome.
 

eyehearttrees

New member
Location
Tampa-Area
It seems like you're a bit confused as to your "variables." Hopefully the PDF file attached works. It is sourced from Bailey's. If you read thru it, I think you should have a better understanding of chain types and measurements.



The below link is a cross reference chart, also from Bailey's.



Thank you VERY much, I will spend a good deal of time on that I am sure ('thankfully' I have the day off...quotes are because I had to take it off, for safety/efficiency reasons, due to over-booking myself :p )

Can I ask you a pointed-question though? What about "regular" 3/8" chains for climbsaws, instead of the usual 3/8LP? I saw someone selling their 355t and, in the advert, I'd swear this was mentioned (maybe I'm confusing full / semi chisels though :p ) Regardless though, I guess I look at my 355t and think that, if it can still *shred* when using 18" b&c with the 3/8LP, then surely it has the power to use regular 3/8 if I'm running a 14" or 16" bar (and, by being real 3/8, not 3/8LP, it should cut far faster since chip size is increased)
Thanks again, gg check out bailey's, I did just go and get my first ever 'pro chain' a 91vx oregon 16" for my 355t, honestly it wasn't as-big a difference as I'd expected it would have been, the 'squirrely'-ness of the thing was just as increased as the power was, it seemed!
 

eyehearttrees

New member
Location
Tampa-Area
For climbing saws, assuming top handle, they are ALL 3/8LP, except Stihl 150T which is 1/4". So it's easy, just choose one of each:
From the factory, sure.....but this pisses me off because for, say, 25cc climbsaws, 1/4" 0.43" seems an obviously superior choice, heck the 2511t overseas comes that way and the movement of people buying August Hunicke's "Panther 1/4 conversion kits" is increasing (hell I'd get one for my 355t if I cared enough :p )

This has always bothered the hell out of me because there's no dispute the chain is a super integral part of "how well does it go through wood?", so seeing the same 3/8LP generic on everything just seems....poor/zero innovation :/

How do I learn Re 'chisel' like is it marked, or by brand or what? Going to read Bailey's guide after submitting this...I just got an oregon 91vx which I don't believe said if it was full or semi, seemed a normal chain excepting the rakers being thinner (which hardly makes sense to me, since I'd have thought the rakers' effect was almost strictly via their height, and the tooth-to-raker gap on pro chains, v safety chains, is still kept the same.....think I may understand why you (a pro) would say you'd choose 'safety' over 'pro' in that area!

Curious Re anything you can tell me Re 0.43 v 0.50... specifically some q's I have are:

- When, in your opinion, does a 0.43 become insufficiently thick? Obviously for fine-carving, with a 20cc machine, .43 is preferable. For speed going through wood the bigger the kerf, the better, provided that chain is still moving with same speed & torque, of course! So, seems to me, that 0.43 is best up until a certain CC(or horsepower), then 0.50 is best next, but then (not climbsaws!) then >0.50 is even better when in 70cc+ powerheads! So am curious how you'd explain choices here, honestly all my stuff is "the generic" but I've always had it in my head that, if I'd only go and buy "comparable Stihl b&c replacements" (yes I can drill tensioner-holes :p ), that my saws would be markedly better....seems that is mostly a pitch thing though :/

- my new polesaw comes w/ "regular" 10" setup except that the chain is 0.43" -- is it common for bars to be made for 0.43, or are those chains still run in 0.50" gauge bars? (the bar on this polesaw doesn't specify gauge, just usual 3/8LP, 40DL etc)
IF 0.43's are usually / always run in 'regular' 0.50 bars, I'd be able to do a lot more swapping and ideally have a 'prune setup' and heavier setup that I can easily swap (as I run a 10" on my smallest climbsaw, too! I use 10", 14" and 16-or-18" on my 3 climbsaws)
 

climbstihl

Branched out member
Location
Germany
From the factory, sure.....but this pisses me off because for, say, 25cc climbsaws, 1/4" 0.43" seems an obviously superior choice, heck the 2511t overseas comes that way and the movement of people buying August Hunicke's "Panther 1/4 conversion kits" is increasing (hell I'd get one for my 355t if I cared enough :p )

This has always bothered the hell out of me because there's no dispute the chain is a super integral part of "how well does it go through wood?", so seeing the same 3/8LP generic on everything just seems....poor/zero innovation :/

How do I learn Re 'chisel' like is it marked, or by brand or what? Going to read Bailey's guide after submitting this...I just got an oregon 91vx which I don't believe said if it was full or semi, seemed a normal chain excepting the rakers being thinner (which hardly makes sense to me, since I'd have thought the rakers' effect was almost strictly via their height, and the tooth-to-raker gap on pro chains, v safety chains, is still kept the same.....think I may understand why you (a pro) would say you'd choose 'safety' over 'pro' in that area!

Curious Re anything you can tell me Re 0.43 v 0.50... specifically some q's I have are:

- When, in your opinion, does a 0.43 become insufficiently thick? Obviously for fine-carving, with a 20cc machine, .43 is preferable. For speed going through wood the bigger the kerf, the better, provided that chain is still moving with same speed & torque, of course! So, seems to me, that 0.43 is best up until a certain CC(or horsepower), then 0.50 is best next, but then (not climbsaws!) then >0.50 is even better when in 70cc+ powerheads! So am curious how you'd explain choices here, honestly all my stuff is "the generic" but I've always had it in my head that, if I'd only go and buy "comparable Stihl b&c replacements" (yes I can drill tensioner-holes :p ), that my saws would be markedly better....seems that is mostly a pitch thing though :/

- my new polesaw comes w/ "regular" 10" setup except that the chain is 0.43" -- is it common for bars to be made for 0.43, or are those chains still run in 0.50" gauge bars? (the bar on this polesaw doesn't specify gauge, just usual 3/8LP, 40DL etc)
IF 0.43's are usually / always run in 'regular' 0.50 bars, I'd be able to do a lot more swapping and ideally have a 'prune setup' and heavier setup that I can easily swap (as I run a 10" on my smallest climbsaw, too! I use 10", 14" and 16-or-18" on my 3 climbsaws)
I believe you are wrong about the 2511 coming with 1/4" .043 in europe, they come with 1/4" .050
It's nice that the come in 1/4" though, that saved me from having to swap the sprocket when I put a Stihl 1/4" .043" on mine.
And I definitely wouldn't run .043" in a .050" bar, .043" comes with it's own bars.
 

evo

Been here a while
Location
My Island, WA
saw power is the determining factor of chains in a broad general sense.. The bigger the powerhead the bigger the chain required. Not because it cuts better, but it stays together.... So going 1/4" on a small saw like the 150 or 2511 improves performance... Put one on a 660 or 395 and you are asking for shrapnel.. The thinner the bar and smaller the chain, you can get by with a slightly longer bar.

The one saw that I sized up from stock is my 261, I put a 18" 3/8ths chain bar combo.. All my other rear handle saws are 3/8th and I can swap bars at will. I can buy a roll of two kinds of chain, 3/8ths pico and straight up 3/8ths.... (I just buy loops of 1/4")

There are all the guages, pitches, and raker combos
Then there are full skip,half skip, or full comp
And cutter type, chisel, Semi, and 'normal' (what ever the name is for the junk crap)

I run full skip 3/8ths .050 on all my rear handles.. Sure the smaller saws should be half skip, or full comp, but I can buy a roll of the same thing for all of em and the difference is minor.
 

Chaplain242

Branched out member
Don’t like full chisel on my saws as the extra backing link makes the saw slow to file in the field, so use semi instead…
 

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