How do Neonicotinoids negatively impact beneficial insects?

Frankkytree

Frankkytree

Location
Minnesota
This tulip poplar has lady beetle larvae battling scale.
How would an application of safari via basal drench negatively impact these larvae/ other predators and parasitoids? Other than residual chemicals in the tree next year when it produces flowers and the beneficial insects pollinate it. (I know some say safari only last one year, but I’ve heard others say two years.) Is it possible the larvae eat some of of the poisoned scale and are impacted?

Is the main concern with using Neonicotinoids around beneficial insects inadvertently spraying them, or that they would pollinate the flower?

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Frankkytree said:
This tulip poplar has lady beetle larvae battling scale.
How would an application of safari via basal drench negatively impact these larvae/ other predators and parasitoids? Other than residual chemicals in the tree next year when it produces flowers and the beneficial insects pollinate it. (I know some say safari only last one year, but I’ve heard others say two years.) Is it possible the larvae eat some of of the poisoned scale and are impacted?

Is the main concern with using Neonicotinoids around beneficial insects inadvertently spraying them, or that they would pollinate the flower?

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That's why they are banned in Europe
 
oh, you may not have heard, but I literally always start with quality compost, well finished and full of very diverse microbial life. I have seen it work so well, it feels like witchcraft, but I like to fight biology with biology. It doesn't always yield instant results, but bringing in elements of a healthy ecosystem, & coaxing a given space into one has never failed me long term.
 
Matias said:
That's why they are banned in Europe
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Interesting. I didn’t know it’s banned in Europe. I’ve heard of 2-3 states- it’s a hot topic. I’ll add a link to a study from Dan Potter— showing residual effects of neonics in a two year study below. It’s a strong argument to use the product very selectively (whooly adelgid on hemlock for example) or not at all.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?...otinoid&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1716429141189&u=#p%

I’ve also read an opposing side say the alternative to neonics being sold at big box stores are organophosphates (for example Acephate). Which apparently are worse for humans and other mammals, and still harm bees? And we’re taking a step back by banning neonics?

Everything has a side effect I suppose!

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Matias said:
oh, you may not have heard, but I literally always start with quality compost, well finished and full of very diverse microbial life. I have seen it work so well, it feels like witchcraft, but I like to fight biology with biology. It doesn't always yield instant results, but bringing in elements of a healthy ecosystem, & coaxing a given space into one has never failed me long term.
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I can dig that!
 
Jumping on this thread with a question on tree injections and beneficial insects.

It's often recommended, for an example, to treat Ash for EAB in the spring as lead flush is happening. It for sure effects grazing leaf eating insects that first year.

A number of clients worry about neonics as they have butterfly and pollinator gardens, or the like. I've advocated for a later season injection to hypothetically have less effect in the leaves??

I've been treating a bunch of ash and oak for two lined chestnut borer via injection. It's better than spraying, but I'm not sure how to articulate the "risks" of this to clients still.

Anyone picking up what I'm putting down with this? My rainbow reps were no help on the topic.

Thanks!
 
It's been a while...but I had asked at several presentationa over the years "what happens to the insecticide in fallen leaves". Never got a good answer. Not sure if that's been researched more or not.

Ash is wind pollinated, so not a lot of concern there.

Soil treatment should raise more questions than injections for uptake by surrounding plants.
 
ATH said:
It's been a while...but I had asked at several presentationa over the years "what happens to the insecticide in fallen leaves". Never got a good answer. Not sure if that's been researched more or not.

Ash is wind pollinated, so not a lot of concern there.

Soil treatment should raise more questions than injections for uptake by surrounding plants.
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I'm learning more and more than the research I want to know about just isn't there yet, which is concerning when we advocate specific products that could be doing more upstream harm than we realize.

I'm reaching out to the university to see if any of their folks have done research on this stuff. I hate not having answers for people.
 
Ah the EAB days.... the treeazin mafia. "$450" But by the size calc it should be $100? "$450". I queried the local city arborist during a joint town/Davey presentation about options and he neatly sidestepped my question with the answer " I see you've been doing your homework reading". Later the city took a "forget the ash trees" - G rating - policy just when it looked like mine might make it after all. Buzzzz chip grind. It cost me about $40 for a spring Inidacloparid root drench, till I couldn't source it.
 
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