Hiring a climber/ employee from out of area

southsoundtree

southsoundtree

Been here much more than a while
Location
Olympia, WA
Different trees, different techniques, different clients' expectations...

How do you help someone adjust to a new style of work and how do you adjust pay?

Suppose you have a really good climber who is used to broad spreading, short trees in tight places who want to work PNW style trees. It's a very different ball game to fell trees, cut millable logs, stably flip logs for a decent landing from 80', do tip-reductions on long conifer limbs, deal with barberchair- prone trees.

Techniques, species strengths, species hinging capacity, etc come into play.


I know that I am not a live oak specialist and couldn't produce in live oaks like in my pnw scene.


Thoughts?
 
I used to work with a guy who was good climbing to 50-60', evidently. Much higher than at Aspludh. He wanted to take big tops as a result.
Personally, i find the need to climb to the top and throw the top to be more important.


He could fell trees, but liked to wedge trees with only one hardhead or 2 stacked, commonly.

It works, but very inefficiently.


How do you pay someone who is experienced but locally inexperienced compared to an experienced, local climber?
 
southsoundtree said:
How do you pay someone who is experienced but locally inexperienced compared to an experienced, local climber?
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The rate to keep them. I wouldn't move to another locale for a pay cut! The flipside of the question/assumption is that the climber would be better at some techniques and more profitable employee with certain skills than local talent. Slower at 180' doug fir, faster at 80' crown spread oak or run out madrone...
 
If they are good, I assume the learning curve would be relatively short...so maybe they are slightly "overpaid" for 6 months, but hopefully by then you'd have them up to speed.

But if they are already safe, keep equipment well, familiar with how to use gear, treat people well, understand how trees behave (that includes knowing some behave differently than others and knowing to ask if they don't know), etc... that is all is as much about being the right person for the job.
 
Whether it's low and wide, or tall and noodly, a climber's gotta know how to make good cuts. If a guy can climb well to 60', I can't wrap my head around why it would be any different getting to even 180'. I understand fear some, but when I was scared, I was scared at 15' too.

I also can't wrap my head around not listening to good advice from guys who are doing things better than you, so I don't know what to say here.
 
My superficial take; these seem like they might be the differences between company workflow as much or more than regional workflow, and it can't be that hard to work around tall single trunk trees unless you're more often than not in 60+ dbh. I agree with ATH that the learning curve ought to be fast if the climber is good out east. So is he actually good, or talking good? Are you in tune with things enough that you've spotted *the* problem, or *a* problem?
 
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Not about location but employees generally- Are you still running a chuck and duck? I personally wouldnt work for a company where I'd have to run a chipper without feed wheels.

The mindset of making due with good enough equipment makes tons of sense as an owner. But as someone who is not on ownership/full profit sharing, making-due can feel like an unnecessary hardship and frustration. Just my $.02
 
In general I agree with what ATH said above.

Happy to chat at some point about it IRL if you'd like Sean, I have some direct experience as that was my exact path as a tree climber: In my first chapter, I cut my teeth in the North Bay area followed by moving to the PNW and retooling my skills to apply here.
 
Matias said:
If a guy can climb well to 60', I can't wrap my head around why it would be any different getting to even 180'. I understand fear some, but when I was scared, I was scared at 15' too.
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For me, I couldn't work comfortably at that height. I'm not sure exactly why, but certain trees with lots of exposure just fuck with my head and I freeze up. I can climb pretty well in 9 out of 10 trees in my area but there is definitely a 10% or so that I just can't do because of The Fear.

To answer the main question, just gotta get some work days with a person and see what they can do then offer to compensate accordingly!

I would have moved back to the PNW years ago if I thought I could handle the work environment but with the size of trees and the wetness, I just don't think I've got what it takes so I'm here with the little trees and no rain!
 
I think it's pretty normal for a human to have increasing fear at greater heights. It is unusual to have the same fear at 15' that you would at 180'. The feeling of being surrounded by a canopy is also reassuring at any height. I think that may be a bigger factor actually. I am more comfy in a tree at 65' surrounded by limbs than at 30' on a bare spar. Everyone's different though!
 
I don't know who pays what for various climbers, locally or nationally.

I think that except for one climber, 17 years ago, I've always paid at least as much, generally more that anyone has earned previously/ paid more that they asked for at time of interview.

My new summer employee (returning to engineering school in Sept, little work experience, no transferable experience except teamwork from sports) hoped for more than minimum wage ($16.66) started at $20, then 2 weeks in, I told him he would be making $25/hour for tree work. Smart, strong enough, hardworking, healthy, quickly developed clear communication habits for team understanding of one plan being worked together, he's building his workplace safety awareness.
He's stoked not to be McJobbing it this summer.




If he comes back next summer instead of some engineering- related or other work, I would bet he's at $30+ by the end of summer and be a competent ground worker, able to wedge, fell, limb and buck some decent trees, decently,






Let's say the 10 years experienced, throw most arborist-quality pruning/ removal projects at 'em and they can do it safely, effectively, predictably, etc is getting $____/ hour and all the regular employee stuff (work outerwear, all climbing gear owned by company but given options/ given 'say' in climbing gear, saws, Coolvests, respirators, etc).

If that's someone who can
hand throw 60' tight shots,
Big Shot 80-100+' TIPs quickly and reliably,
can work a removal in a spindly top over skylights at 120',
basic crane removals,
wedging trees of course,
negative rigging short logs, speedlining,
end-weight reductions on long conifer branches over obstacles after setting max- height TIPs for dual SRS,
fast rope walker/ power ascender user,
working with hoisting long, horizontal limbs to upright over structures before lowering into a tight drop zone like in a big spreading maple overthrowing the house,
handle all the barberchair precautions and various climbing and cutting techniques for our barberchair prone species (knowing which they are and able to read the degree of strain, too),
etc,
then what do you pay the climber who can't ID many of the local trees, diseases, strengths, decay patterns, densities, failure patterns, species- specific cautions?





What do you think the 3 year experienced climber gets paid in your area? 10 year veteran of the same area?
 
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Valid, basic DL, able to drive 1ton and trailer, ideally all non-cdl basic truck, ideally a drive a basic 5 or 6 speed manual (a basic skill in my book).
 
I’d say a starting wage of $35 with a quick advancement based on observed skills to $40-45 plus perks.
I offer company gear, but strongly encourage purchasing their own. Bought by the company and given at a hearty discount. For example say a top of the line harness is $700 and a cheap one is 3-400. They want a top of the line, so their cost is $300 and it’s theirs.
Bonuses and health insurance stipends, use of company tools for their own house work (including free labor to help out). Pay for CEU and classes, 50% plus pay bump for certs etc.
 
It’s all about the location. I expect to get knocked down a few pegs for the next job after my move. Your numbers and logic makes sense to me
 
Big rapids for a year. Searching for a homestead within 250 miles or so. I plan on doing some temporary work in the meantime
 
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