Help!!

DC*Customz

New Member
Location
Cheney
I have vermeer 1000xl. Have tooken apart and replaced almost all bearings. . The vibration was there when I first got it but very faint... Now, it hammers your hands and it's so violent that it sounds like anytime it's going to come apart. The knives are messed up pretty good but the violent nature tells me it's not a knife. Motor runs super smooth. As soon as drum gets turning at a decent speed it starts to make the noise. When it is engaged , it is nasty!!! I'm right in the thick of things right now and dont have alot of time to play the guessing game. Any help, I'd greatly appreciate it! Ps. New to the forum and threads. I appreciate the registry and hope all is trying to live life well enough during these wild years in america!
Thanks, Denny
 

Jehinten

Well-Known Member
Location
Evansville
You mentioned the knives, one way to confirm it is not the issue is to remove them and test run it. Likely not the issue, but it's an easy thing to test. If they are that bad they need to be taken off and swapped anyways.

Video did not load, often times it needs to be uploaded to a third party site then post the url on here. Either vimeo or YouTube tends to works well.
 

Reach

Well-Known Member
Location
Atglen, PA
From what little I can see in the video, I would start at the clutch end of things. In the video, it looked like the bearing that holds the end of the shaft the belt attaches to off the engine is moving; if that bearing can move than it can vibrate.

Also check and tension your belt, it looked to me like the belt was flapping - a bad belt can cause that, and a loose belt can cause that as well.

Did the vibration get worse suddenly after you worked on it, or was it that bad before you started changing bearings? And which bearings specifically did you change or not change?
 

DC*Customz

New Member
Location
Cheney
The shaft that engages clutch is very loose. How do I adjust belt properly? How much tension? I can hear the ticking noise inside the drum housing.... could something be stuck underneath above inspection plate?
 

JeffGu

Well-Known Member
Wow. Loose belt (you can see it slipping) and that drum is really out of balance. It's going to rattle everything else loose, running like that.
 
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JeffGu

Well-Known Member
Anything that big and heavy that's spinning only needs to be a little out of balance to start shaking and wobbling like that. Watch the engine... it's smoother, at a higher frequency... it's not that. Watch the drum housing.. as soon as it begins to get up to speed, the shaking starts. It's like a washing machine that gets out of balance. It can walk itself right across the floor and bang on the walls like a room full of hostages.

Missing chunks of the drum and/or the knives are usually the culprit. I had an old disc type that someone welded to repair a crack... it wobbled horribly until I had my brother weld a little steel directly opposite the repair until we got it back into reasonable balance. I used it for another two years and then traded it off. Those old machines can drive you nuts with repairs.
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
Administrator
Between university and tech college I worked for a company that sold large abrasive belt sanding machines. The little ones that I built were about the size of a small vending machine. 10-15 HP motors and air hydraulic controls. The big machines were BIG. One had two 50HP motors inside the frame and two outside.

So what point am I making?

During that stint...it lasted for close to two years I learned so much about how machines are built, tuned and functioned.

Replacing head bearings isn't just a matter of unbolting, prying off the old bearings then whacking it back together. Things are done systematically. Loosen bolts in a star pattern not circular. Pry a little here...then move 180* and pry a little...gently.

Reassemble gently. Clean all shafts and smooth out the shafts with files and emery cloth. Bearings all slide on and off before assembly. Tighten housings in several steps. Start screws at finger tight...again...star pattern NEVER circular. bring up the torque in steps. Not just a breaker bar and OOOMPH!

Unless there are chunks of metal gone from the chipper head it shouldn't have so much vibration. Take out the knives and all screws. Start the chipper and let it idle at a low speed. It should be smooooooth. If not...time to start at the output shaft of the engine. FLywheel. Clutch. Output connections. The whole drive system has to be smooth. Are there u joints in the drive system? Are they phased right?

It might be time to get a millwright or experienced mechanic involved.

The job building sanding machines is where I learned all of this. From men that had spent their lives as builders. Lots of art to learn from them along with science.
 

Reach

Well-Known Member
Location
Atglen, PA
The shaft that engages clutch is very loose. How do I adjust belt properly? How much tension? I can hear the ticking noise inside the drum housing.... could something be stuck underneath above inspection plate?
If you have a loose shaft, that could be the problem. Perhaps clutch is out of adjustment? If you’ve never adjust it, most likely it is.

I do not work on Vermeer machines, but most chippers have a set of bolts that slide the whole engine to tension the belt. Your owners manual can tell you that.

Tension should be a lot; on Bandit chippers, you should have one inch of belt deflection at the center of the belt with 100 pounds of force on the belt. That translates toan incredible amount of belt tension, which is unsurprisingly considering the loads we put on those belts when chipping, especially with the bigger machines.

A ticking noise can be quite a few things; a cracked clutch plate, a bad bearing, a belt with a broken band - without hearing it myself I don’t want to say too much because there’s so many options. It can even be a twig tapping one of the knives on the way around.

It seems to me that it’s time to find a good local chipper mechanic and have this machine looked at professionally. I mean no offense to you personally, but if you’re not a mechanic, you should not be working on a chipper. Too many things that can fail catastrophically and kill someone. I’ve seen what happens when the knives meet the anvil of a chipper and it’s not good. I have seen the aftermath of a couple major, preventable incidents that could have ended with dead people, and amazingly did not.
 

DC*Customz

New Member
Location
Cheney
Between university and tech college I worked for a company that sold large abrasive belt sanding machines. The little ones that I built were about the size of a small vending machine. 10-15 HP motors and air hydraulic controls. The big machines were BIG. One had two 50HP motors inside the frame and two outside.

So what point am I making?

During that stint...it lasted for close to two years I learned so much about how machines are built, tuned and functioned.

Replacing head bearings isn't just a matter of unbolting, prying off the old bearings then whacking it back together. Things are done systematically. Loosen bolts in a star pattern not circular. Pry a little here...then move 180* and pry a little...gently.

Reassemble gently. Clean all shafts and smooth out the shafts with files and emery cloth. Bearings all slide on and off before assembly. Tighten housings in several steps. Start screws at finger tight...again...star pattern NEVER circular. bring up the torque in steps. Not just a breaker bar and OOOMPH!

Unless there are chunks of metal gone from the chipper head it shouldn't have so much vibration. Take out the knives and all screws. Start the chipper and let it idle at a low speed. It should be smooooooth. If not...time to start at the output shaft of the engine. FLywheel. Clutch. Output connections. The whole drive system has to be smooth. Are there u joints in the drive system? Are they phased right?

It might be time to get a millwright or experienced mechanic involved.

The job building sanding machines is where I learned all of this. From men that had spent their lives as builders. Lots of art to learn from them along with science.
Between university and tech college I worked for a company that sold large abrasive belt sanding machines. The little ones that I built were about the size of a small vending machine. 10-15 HP motors and air hydraulic controls. The big machines were BIG. One had two 50HP motors inside the frame and two outside.

So what point am I making?

During that stint...it lasted for close to two years I learned so much about how machines are built, tuned and functioned.

Replacing head bearings isn't just a matter of unbolting, prying off the old bearings then whacking it back together. Things are done systematically. Loosen bolts in a star pattern not circular. Pry a little here...then move 180* and pry a little...gently.

Reassemble gently. Clean all shafts and smooth out the shafts with files and emery cloth. Bearings all slide on and off before assembly. Tighten housings in several steps. Start screws at finger tight...again...star pattern NEVER circular. bring up the torque in steps. Not just a breaker bar and OOOMPH!

Unless there are chunks of metal gone from the chipper head it shouldn't have so much vibration. Take out the knives and all screws. Start the chipper and let it idle at a low speed. It should be smooooooth. If not...time to start at the output shaft of the engine. FLywheel. Clutch. Output connections. The whole drive system has to be smooth. Are there u joints in the drive system? Are they phased right?

It might be time to get a millwright or experienced mechanic involved.

The job building sanding machines is where I learned all of this. From men that had spent their lives as builders. Lots of art to learn from them along with science.
Sounds good and all but it was far far worse before I put bearings on it. I've been doing bearings and shafts for many years, all types,shapes and sizes. Little, big, heavy loads, bearings that handle a continuous 30 ton weight 24 hours a day. This thing is relatively simple. It has high miles. Motor is around. Very smooth. To answer your question I did play by play video from vermeer on how to un torque and re torque sequences as well as proper rotating mass. You should never pry a bearing off. So I'm not sure what your getting at there. These bearings are in 2 7/8 holders. Re greaseable..
 

DC*Customz

New Member
Location
Cheney
If you have a loose shaft, that could be the problem. Perhaps clutch is out of adjustment? If you’ve never adjust it, most likely it is.

I do not work on Vermeer machines, but most chippers have a set of bolts that slide the whole engine to tension the belt. Your owners manual can tell you that.

Tension should be a lot; on Bandit chippers, you should have one inch of belt deflection at the center of the belt with 100 pounds of force on the belt. That translates toan incredible amount of belt tension, which is unsurprisingly considering the loads we put on those belts when chipping, especially with the bigger machines.

A ticking noise can be quite a few things; a cracked clutch plate, a bad bearing, a belt with a broken band - without hearing it myself I don’t want to say too much because there’s so many options. It can even be a twig tapping one of the knives on the way around.

It seems to me that it’s time to find a good local chipper mechanic and have this machine looked at professionally. I mean no offense to you personally, but if you’re not a mechanic, you should not be working on a chipper. Too many things that can fail catastrophically and kill someone. I’ve seen what happens when the knives meet the anvil of a chipper and it’s not good. I have seen the aftermath of a couple major, preventable incidents that could have ended with dead people, and amazingly did not.
I'm just fine. I fabricate for a living. This is very unique vibration. Nothing incremental is going to affect it this way.
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
Administrator
How was I to know what you brought to the table? Now it sounds like you're pretty knowledgeable.

Once in a while the sanding machines I was around would develop a vibration. It would show up as 'chatter' when a sample was run. The sample plate might have a ghost line in it instead of a mirror smooth surface. The men I worked with told me the defect was likely half a thousandth...unacceptable. the solution was to start over at the motor and go though everything. Sometimes using a stethescope sometimes using a dial indicator. None of these fails were EVER near as bad as what you've got going on.
 
Last edited:

96coal449

Well-Known Member
Location
earth
I'm not doubting your mechanical ability. I used to turn wrenches for a living some time ago. I know where you're coming from trying to take care of business yourself. With that all said, Is there a local Vermeer dealer near you?
I never cared for their machines much but they do have great customer service. Guy I know brings his 1500 in for service and gets a loaner for the down time to keep him in action. The 1500 he has now was a loaner he decided to keep and traded his old Vermeer in for.

Just a thought.....
 

evo

Well-Known Member
Location
My Island, WA
Did you install the right bearings? The out of balance drum could be a miss alignment with the bearings... if it’s worse than when it was before you replaced the bearings logic says you messed up somewhere
 

Jehinten

Well-Known Member
Location
Evansville
I'm a big proponent of isolating parts of a system when trying to troubleshoot. If you've still not found the source of the vibration I would at least take the belt off and start the engine, then engage the clutch and check for vibration. While an issue with the clutch could go unnoticed without the load of the belt and drum it's still a good check bc if the vibration is there then you know it's not the drum.
 

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