[felling shorter, FAT trunks] Some Q's on crash-pads, and on "butt-tying" trunks (yup, butt tying a trunk, you read it right!)

eyehearttrees

New member
Location
Tampa-Area
tl;dr--- If you have a ~14' tall, 4' wide DBH oak trunk (just trunk) to fell, but a very tight felling-zone, wouldn't it be OK to simply take the top 4' section off, noodle/cut it in half lengthwise and lay the two halves on the sod cut-faces down and perpendicular-to the trunk you're about to slam onto them....then simply butt-hitch the trunk's base so that, when it slams its 'crash pad', that it doesn't bounce too far away! Can draw an illustration if helpful!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~


Cannot say I've seen others doing the "butt-tie the trunk's bottom", I've done this in several circumstances where it was important that the trunk stayed-put once landed, am planning to do that here (literally just roping as-if you were butt-hitching the piece, only you've gotta be real precise in how much slack is on the line...and obviously that the cordage is appropriately robust!)

Crash pads.... I know that it's generally not advised to make them from the very tree you're cutting, but in this case I'm not protecting asphalt/concrete I'm merely protecting the sod.... My thinking was:
"Trunk is about 15' tall right now and 4' DBH, I have to take about 3-5' off the top so I can fell the remaining portion so I'll just use that cut-top of the trunk as my crash-padding" (obviously I'd halve the wood, and put the wide sides facing down on the sod, laid perpendicular to the big 10' trunk that will be slamming-into them)

Thanks for any insight, am really trying to get this trunk to land - and stay - in a very tight space, am fine with it bouncing since it'll be butt-hitched (and'll have a pull- / tag- line connected to its top, not that I'm fighting lean but just because I like doing that whenever possible, have some pressure in my fall-direction!)

PS- If it matters, my plan was to make a 'open face'/humbodt notch, not a flat-bottomed notch like usual, to prevent excessive 'hop' off the stump...also planning to make the cut around 3' off-ground, both for comfort and to make the top of the trunk land a bit closer to the stump (trunk cannot go too-far forward, or to either side...and don't wanna destroy the sodding if I can get-away with it!)
 

Stumpsprouts

Branched out member
Location
Asheville
tl;dr--- If you have a ~14' tall, 4' wide DBH oak trunk (just trunk) to fell, but a very tight felling-zone, wouldn't it be OK to simply take the top 4' section off, noodle/cut it in half lengthwise and lay the two halves on the sod cut-faces down and perpendicular-to the trunk you're about to slam onto them....then simply butt-hitch the trunk's base so that, when it slams its 'crash pad', that it doesn't bounce too far away! Can draw an illustration if helpful!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~


Cannot say I've seen others doing the "butt-tie the trunk's bottom", I've done this in several circumstances where it was important that the trunk stayed-put once landed, am planning to do that here (literally just roping as-if you were butt-hitching the piece, only you've gotta be real precise in how much slack is on the line...and obviously that the cordage is appropriately robust!)

Crash pads.... I know that it's generally not advised to make them from the very tree you're cutting, but in this case I'm not protecting asphalt/concrete I'm merely protecting the sod.... My thinking was:
"Trunk is about 15' tall right now and 4' DBH, I have to take about 3-5' off the top so I can fell the remaining portion so I'll just use that cut-top of the trunk as my crash-padding" (obviously I'd halve the wood, and put the wide sides facing down on the sod, laid perpendicular to the big 10' trunk that will be slamming-into them)

Thanks for any insight, am really trying to get this trunk to land - and stay - in a very tight space, am fine with it bouncing since it'll be butt-hitched (and'll have a pull- / tag- line connected to its top, not that I'm fighting lean but just because I like doing that whenever possible, have some pressure in my fall-direction!)

PS- If it matters, my plan was to make a 'open face'/humbodt notch, not a flat-bottomed notch like usual, to prevent excessive 'hop' off the stump...also planning to make the cut around 3' off-ground, both for comfort and to make the top of the trunk land a bit closer to the stump (trunk cannot go too-far forward, or to either side...and don't wanna destroy the sodding if I can get-away with it!)
Hey! I butt tie spars all the time. And get creative with cribbing. Usually use things in the 12” diameter from the tree because they are easy to maneuver. Lay a few perpendicular to the lay. Some extra techniques come in play depending on the situation. Tires, plywood, alturnamats may get involved.

Often use a portawrap 90 degrees to the notch for the butt tie. Easier to undo and sometimes if you’re gonna skid the log you have the set up ready to go.
 

Jehinten

Carpal tunnel level member
Location
Evansville
Crash pads.... I know that it's generally not advised to make them from the very tree you're cutting,
Not really important for this discussion, but why isn't it advised? When I build a crash pad for a trunk, its always from pieces previously cut off of the same tree.

4' DBH sounds like a lot of wood for the saw that you bought a few weeks ago. If you don't have a loader that means a lot of hard cutting for a box store saw. Not trying to harp on you too much, but you refused the suggestions to get a pro saw (which was your right) but your asking it to do pro level cutting. I'm just not sure that it will be up to the task with the bar buried on double cutting and a 4-5' noodling cut.


really trying to get this trunk to land - and stay - in a very tight space, am fine with it bouncing since it'll be butt-hitched

The butt hitching is a good idea, it works well and is a common practice when it's needed. However the best way to keep a trunk from bouncing is to not place logs under it to land on. Turf is your friend in this instance. I know you'd like to protect the turf, but look to my next point.


Instead of a crash pad, you already intend to drop a 4' section off of a 15' trunk. You also intend to make your final notch at 3' leaving a total of 8' of trunk wood. Instead of noodling the first 4', why not move it out of the way and drop another 4' on the same spot of turf. Move it and one more 4' section in the same spot gets you down to a 3' stump. No noodling, no bouncing off of logs and no additional turf damage.
 

evo

Been here a while
Location
My Island, WA
Cant really say it better myself.
I nearly always crib the spar, sometimes for no reason other than keeping it clean for bucking.

Nearly always its made from the tree itself, sometimes just a pile of brush to drop rounds onto, sometimes a pile of chips, most the time logs.

I cant recall ripping a log for the purpose though, lots of extra work.
 

Chris Schultz

Participating member
Location
Minturn
That ripper cut in a 4’ diameter log is going to take awhile, and give you carpal tunnel syndrome in the process….. cribbing works well, even consider something parallel on the sides of desired lay. I only butt hitch if terrain requires it….. Why not a wide open gob cut to keep it hinged as long as possible? Slowing the felling/tipping usually greatly reduces harsh/dramatic movements upon landing.
 

Neill

Participating member
Location
North carolina
Keep the log on the stump by cutting a wider angle face notch than the fall of the log- this will prevent the hinge from breaking. Leave a wide enough hinge and pull/ wedge it over as slowly as possible.
 

hammsarborcare

New member
Location
Wisconsin
tl;dr--- If you have a ~14' tall, 4' wide DBH oak trunk (just trunk) to fell, but a very tight felling-zone, wouldn't it be OK to simply take the top 4' section off, noodle/cut it in half lengthwise and lay the two halves on the sod cut-faces down and perpendicular-to the trunk you're about to slam onto them....then simply butt-hitch the trunk's base so that, when it slams its 'crash pad', that it doesn't bounce too far away! Can draw an illustration if helpful!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~


Cannot say I've seen others doing the "butt-tie the trunk's bottom", I've done this in several circumstances where it was important that the trunk stayed-put once landed, am planning to do that here (literally just roping as-if you were butt-hitching the piece, only you've gotta be real precise in how much slack is on the line...and obviously that the cordage is appropriately robust!)

Crash pads.... I know that it's generally not advised to make them from the very tree you're cutting, but in this case I'm not protecting asphalt/concrete I'm merely protecting the sod.... My thinking was:
"Trunk is about 15' tall right now and 4' DBH, I have to take about 3-5' off the top so I can fell the remaining portion so I'll just use that cut-top of the trunk as my crash-padding" (obviously I'd halve the wood, and put the wide sides facing down on the sod, laid perpendicular to the big 10' trunk that will be slamming-into them)

Thanks for any insight, am really trying to get this trunk to land - and stay - in a very tight space, am fine with it bouncing since it'll be butt-hitched (and'll have a pull- / tag- line connected to its top, not that I'm fighting lean but just because I like doing that whenever possible, have some pressure in my fall-direction!)

PS- If it matters, my plan was to make a 'open face'/humbodt notch, not a flat-bottomed notch like usual, to prevent excessive 'hop' off the stump...also planning to make the cut around 3' off-ground, both for comfort and to make the top of the trunk land a bit closer to the stump (trunk cannot go too-far forward, or to either side...and don't wanna destroy the sodding if I can get-away with it!)
Two Alterna Mats side by side perpendicular to the fell then a third mat centered on the seam of the bottom two. 3 or 4 old tires down the middle of the top pad then a 12 inch diameter log across the tires. Sounds like you may not have any branch wood laying around so if the space is real tight then two 6x6x8 foot beams tied together with some 4x4 stock about 2 feet in from each end with some heavy screw lags. This will form a sturdy cradle to stabilize the trunk on the drop. The tires absorb the bounce and the mats protect the turf. Your client will be real impressed and you can dice up the log on the ground where its comfortable without the risk of hitting the tires with your chain because the beams suspend the log. We've done this many times, perfect lawn when finished. Otherwise slice and dice the log and drop small pieces. Did that with a 48" 30 foot tall red oak trunk with a 8x8 drop zone around flag stone patio and steps.

Kevin Hamm
 

eyehearttrees

New member
Location
Tampa-Area
Hey! I butt tie spars all the time. And get creative with cribbing. Usually use things in the 12” diameter from the tree because they are easy to maneuver. Lay a few perpendicular to the lay. Some extra techniques come in play depending on the situation. Tires, plywood, alturnamats may get involved.
Often use a portawrap 90 degrees to the notch for the butt tie. Easier to undo and sometimes if you’re gonna skid the log you have the set up ready to go.
LOL it took way longer than it should've for me to realize what you meant by 'skid'... I don't work around skids very often anymore, pretty 'lone wolf' out here although have been collaborating with someone a bit lately which has been neat!

Have used random stuff myself before, here I'm just a bit worried that using just 2, 5' long pieces will be insufficient surface area, that the slam will 'print' the sod with the crash pad pieces..

Not really important for this discussion, but why isn't it advised? When I build a crash pad for a trunk, its always from pieces previously cut off of the same tree.

4' DBH sounds like a lot of wood for the saw that you bought a few weeks ago. If you don't have a loader that means a lot of hard cutting for a box store saw. Not trying to harp on you too much, but you refused the suggestions to get a pro saw (which was your right) but your asking it to do pro level cutting. I'm just not sure that it will be up to the task with the bar buried on double cutting and a 4-5' noodling cut.
I only & strictly meant not using hardwood sections to block hardwood slams against hard surfaces like asphalt/concrete etc. My situation is "soft targets" of sod/irrigation, so I'm - ideally - hoping I won't put 6" chasms into the lawn! With a 15' spar, ideal here in my mind is taking the top 5' off, cut it in half lengthwise and lay them perpendicular to the trunk to protect the sod, I expect it'll bounce when it hits them hence the butt-tie but think it should have almost entirely forward/backward force, not sideways (house is sideways...and I can't just "caution lean" it into their garden to avoid that....I just have to ensure a straight fall! Still considering setting a 'dead man line' from my truck to the trunk's middle, to prevent excessive hop!)

Re saws, I think you're underestimating the 590/600/620 platform!! I'm not saying it's appropriate for this trunk (though I've no doubt I could do this trunk with it if I'd chosen to!) but it's a great saw, and 'pro' in any way that counts... Have done 2 rounds of porting and have almost 10hrs on mine, it is awesome (I'm in FL, we don't have lots of big wood, heck upon consideration we may be one of the smaller-wood states due to geography....have not been on anything over ~55' all year...)
That said I have been very lucky -- need to figure out if I'm allowed to name-drop or not, could see them being equally upset if I mention where I got it since it's a clonesaw -- but have a tuned G660 and b&c landing today, which I'll be felling it with. But as soon as it's hit the ground I'll be using the 590 again, breaking it in and tuning it as it needs more of both lol but even as a new-saw it's awesome I can't believe they're only $400..Can understand why my friend/colleague owns two of them!
 

eyehearttrees

New member
Location
Tampa-Area
This is the tallest, and one of the thickest bases, I handled all year....was doing far too many pruning jobs / not putting myself out there for removals as much, anyway I did this w/ the 36cc 355t, complete PITA and would've saved hours having the 590 but still got the job done ;D
20210803_171355.jpg 20210803_180712.jpg 20210803_180856_HDR.jpg
Very very happy with my 590 though, I do expect it'll be my main 60cc saw for years, but it was never to be a 'final saw' but am still very happy with the choice (I could upgrade to some 620 parts and work on it further but for a 20" it is more than what I need, so - coupled with a 92cc - I think I'm gonna be set for a lil bit!) Will want to get something nicer than the g660 at some point, naturally, but need to 'have the need' to justify it, and w/ the 590 and g660 I'm working-towards that very aggressively (have gotten more 'big wood' jobs in the time since buying the 590, than in the quarter leading up to that time!) Was advertising primarily as 'pruning' which was very dumb in hindsight, am not good at marketing :p
 

eyehearttrees

New member
Location
Tampa-Area
Oh I should mention that I do have some materials to put under the proposed "5' long, halved pieces", specifically I left a ~15-20' tall leader on top of my 15' trunk, just kinda to ensure some yokel didn't come fell my trunk lol but also because I wanted the client there as I'll be ziplining that and he's been taking awesome pics&vid so really want the ziplining & the trunk-felling both on video am lucky he's coordinating this with me :)
 

Stumpsprouts

Branched out member
Location
Asheville
Have you ripped a 4 foot trunk of wood in half before? It’s a bear of a task, even for a 660. That sounds like a great way to add an hour to an otherwise simple sounding task. Others have given you a great detailed recipe for an impact casserole that you could use here.
 

eyehearttrees

New member
Location
Tampa-Area
Have you ripped a 4 foot trunk of wood in half before? It’s a bear of a task, even for a 660. That sounds like a great way to add an hour to an otherwise simple sounding task. Others have given you a great detailed recipe for an impact casserole that you could use here.
Problem with logs is they just get pushed into the ground. I like horse corral mats with a couple of truck tires. Even on lawn.

Will finish bucking the pieces tomorrow....that big saw/bar is sooo heavy I mean I'm a real small guy so for me it's that much more exaggerated!! Client had been posting videos of me on the 2 prior sessions (I did the whole canopy myself over 3 separate sessions, days apart) when I was just snubbing logs, got usual dozen or two views, then this time for some reason - probably because he dared show my car magnet (one of my sole forms of advert, that I don't even keep-on all the time!), anyway within hours it's got >1300 views and of the few comments they're decidedly "you're an amateur who cannot use that rental saw" even though it's like perfect notching (no 'cleanup' before moving on), was guy-wired for redundancy, and did a bore-cut thinking it may help reduce bang a lil bit, I know using a humboldt did (VERY difficult w/ a 660 w/o full-wrap bars, though can't say I'd want them :p Rarely do humboldts was just stoked I lined-up the long-bar's notch the first try!) Only needed to "go peek at the far-side" once during the bore-cut, could not have gone smoother, client & myself getting to fully see/hear/feel those last moments of it being upright before it begins its topple, and landed precisely where planned/needed!
 
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