Expanding the use of my Hook system

moss

Been here a while
I'm finding that the DMM Captain Hook/mini-rope wrench combo is versatile beyond hooking a branch for horizontal canopy/crown movement. With the 9mm life-support quality line the overall system is very compact and can be used for a variety of climbing situations. For example I had a much easier time taking out an extreme leaner mulberry by creating secure "closed" anchors with my hook line for super strong positioning out on branch ends. I also use it as a pull down add-on for taking out remote anchors, the list of possible uses beyond simple hooking is long.

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Clove Hitch slipped over a butt-end for a secure secondary anchor to help get out to stuff below


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Cinched two-wrap overhand for a "mid-limb" attachment, the hook would have too wiggle through two overhands to escape.

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Nice "cottage" shed below me and no overhead rigging points so getting out the ends of this very horizontal crown was important to "go small" and take the crown apart without having to fight too hard for it.
-AJ
 
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SeanRuel

Branched out member
Location
Portland
What about another Double eye lanyard thing. Hook on the end and a carabiner behind it seems Like it might be versatile. Could then be used in traditional lanyard configs with the hook poking out past your side
 
AJ glad to see the hitch. But as for the hook, remind me, isn't there a note in the stuff that comes with the Captain that says it's not to be used as life support? Or is it the single malt remembering again? The screw link above (or your use of a knot) would let you take the Captain hook off duty in the use of the rig as a second climbing system. I guess. I use a Zillon and Tachyon on my Captain rig now - any thoughts on the Zillon as life support in SRT style? I'm not sure how far I'd push it this way, same as a ZigZag (without a wrench above it).
 

Aerial Traveler

Branched out member
Location
Earth
I wonder if a version of the Woods Lanyard (Integrated Canopy Anchor) could be created by swapping the small DMM D shackle on the Captain for the larger DMM Bow Shackle. Then a bight of rope could be put into the bow shackle and secured with a locking carabiner to create a canopy anchor similar to one of the configurations that Moss presented for the woods lanyard. The Captain Hook could then remain on the line and hang to the side unused.

Or, have a double stitched eye with a slick pin shackle on the hook end like the Woods Lanyard.
 
I wonder if a version of the Woods Lanyard (Integrated Canopy Anchor) could be created by swapping the small DMM D shackle on the Captain for the larger DMM Bow Shackle. Then a bight of rope could be put into the bow shackle and secured with a locking carabiner to create a canopy anchor similar to one of the configurations that Moss presented for the woods lanyard. The Captain Hook could then remain on the line and hang to the side unused.

Or, have a double stitched eye with a slick pin shackle on the hook end like the Woods Lanyard.
Great thought. Since DMM seems to be so far into shackle-ology with all the new Directors, wonder why they don't make a rated version of the Captain period? Maybe one with an extra rated eye for a biner on top by the swivel end too?
And as an aside, I'd still like to see someone come up with a triple locking biner/ thingy that allows a safe quick trunk cinch on small diameter (scary) stems (not requiring the screwing and unscrewing of a shackle) yet more "secure" than a quickie. This has been discussed (complete with design ideas - the bent or curved grippy biner?) in the past on TreeBuzz.
Yet another fall, pondering climbing beanpole conifers with no tie in points on skinny branches (like lodgepole pines or norfolk's where you can pop the branches off by looking at them sideways).
 

moss

Been here a while
AJ glad to see the hitch. But as for the hook, remind me, isn't there a note in the stuff that comes with the Captain that says it's not to be used as life support? Or is it the single malt remembering again? The screw link above (or your use of a knot) would let you take the Captain hook off duty in the use of the rig as a second climbing system. I guess. I use a Zillon and Tachyon on my Captain rig now - any thoughts on the Zillon as life support in SRT style? I'm not sure how far I'd push it this way, same as a ZigZag (without a wrench above it).
Yes, the Captain Hook is not intended as primary life support. It is an "open connection", not meeting expected standards of a "double locking" life support quality attachment. The Hook itself appears unbreakable by our normal climbing and working activities. The removable shackle attachment is the same strength spec as the DMM Focus Swivel shackle. The weakest part of the off-the-shelf system is the 10mm Sirius Reep Schnur which does not have impressive break strength compared to the Hook and shackle hardware. In a pull test done for me a new hank of 10mm Reep Schnur broke in the 2900 lb. range several times. The 9mm PMI EZ-Bend I'm using is rated at 18.3 kN/4100 lb. MBS.

In the use shown above it is not primary life support. But when I have the Hook on my harness and I can benefit from a second system, tying off the line below the Hook takes away the "open attachment" problem and qualifies its use as acceptable as a second life support attachment for example when running a saw. Reality is I'll have my short lanyard engaged anyway. I'm really using it for a highly secure positioning device in that configuration.

My exception for my Hook as primary life support is that I will sometimes use it as a temporary "static hold" when I'm advancing above my original access TIP. Likewise when I'm backing out of some tricky spot I might use it in the same way, a static hold while I reset my lanyard or main climbing system. By "static hold" I mean an arm's length anchor that is used to hold me while I do a switch over from one system to the other. It is not an anchor to work off of or depend on as an anchor "over there" in another part of the tree. If I'm in a static position (not moving around) with the Hook right in front it will take an earthquake, lightning strike, meteor hit, etc. to lift me and the Hook off the tree. Nuances don't play well in tree climbing safety guidelines, but an experienced climber understands the difference between working off an anchor and a static hold used for a gear transition.

Something that's not talked about much in public forums is the number of times experienced climbers completely detach from the their systems in the tree while transitioning an attachment of one sort or the other (resolving twisted/tangled systems etc.). When climbers do that they typically lock their body into the tree with their legs, leaning their back against the trunk or a limb, locking a limb or branch with an elbow or even armpit etc. etc. There is no way to quantify this kind of move as safe. It involves the basic principles of safe free climbing, always three points of body engagement with the tree, never putting everything on one tree part. Again, nuances. I don't advocate this but it is reality, climbers do it, if only rarely.

All that considered I'm very ok with using the Hook as a static hold during a transition. It does not past muster though from an "accepted practice" perspective.
-AJ
 
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moss

Been here a while
Great thought. Since DMM seems to be so far into shackle-ology with all the new Directors, wonder why they don't make a rated version of the Captain period? Maybe one with an extra rated eye for a biner on top by the swivel end too?
And as an aside, I'd still like to see someone come up with a triple locking biner/ thingy that allows a safe quick trunk cinch on small diameter (scary) stems (not requiring the screwing and unscrewing of a shackle) yet more "secure" than a quickie. This has been discussed (complete with design ideas - the bent or curved grippy biner?) in the past on TreeBuzz.
Yet another fall, pondering climbing beanpole conifers with no tie in points on skinny branches (like lodgepole pines or norfolk's where you can pop the branches off by looking at them sideways).
Yeah definitely. Time for a purpose-built "carabiner" with a curved reinforced spine profile designed for choking less than wide diameter spars. The trick there is that the gate always needs to be up or opposing the direction of load to implement safely. Not a huge issue to configue except you need to be able to quickly remove the carabiner from the lanyard or rope eye and flip the orientation depending on which direction you're setting the choke around the spar. just a heads up spec for whoever is going to realize this dream ;-)
-AJ
 

moss

Been here a while
As far as all the excellent suggestions about larger shackles, adding in hardware etc at the Hook/rope eye join goes... I'm not too interested. My Hook use is based primarily on its excellent functionality for throwing and grabbing anchors as originally designed. My other uses are added benefit and more reason for me to carry the extra gear on my harness. I want the Hook/rope attachment as clean as possible, there have been too many situations when anything extra in that spot could've caused me problems either setting or releasing the Hook. More power to you though, I know a lot of Hook users like Aerial Traveler use a quick link or something similar as the connection. It's a strong strategy, I'm probably being uneccessarily stubborn on this point ;-)

To Sean Ruels's comments there is an answer that would provide benefit for creating a closed Hook anchor. If the eye on the end of the Hook line is slightly more open (no need for a tight eye there) then a Quickie shackle can be slipped in there to create a choked anchor below the Hook. Question is can I wrap and tie a secure Hook anchor faster than I can install a Quickie? Would be good to have the option, a slightly more open rope eye is easy with no downside.

Edit: Using a Quickie as described would make a remote release setup possible, you'd still have to flip the Hook back over the limb/branch but for the right tree structure (not a tight union) it could work great.
-AJ
 
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Burrapeg

Been here a while
Location
Puget Sound
I like using a rated stainless steel screw link to attach the hook to the rope eye splice. This allows a fairly quick conversion over to a lanyard set-up or MRS/DdRT climbing system.
I have always used my hook this way too. The SS screw link I used has a profile no larger than the hook shackle itself, so I have experienced no adverse effect in manipulating the hook over limbs. And I can remove the link at height fairly quickly if I want to remove the hook, since I sometimes like to use it on one end of my main climbing line or shift it to the tail end of my long lanyard.
 

Richard Mumford-yoyoman

Been here a while
Location
Atlanta GA
Something that's not talked about much in public forums is the number of times experienced climbers completely detach from the their systems in the tree while transitioning an attachment of one sort or the other (resolving twisted/tangled systems
With upmost respect.
What I will never do is completely detach, not that I couldn't get away with several time but because it opens a door I don't want to use. If there is something that would be easy to solve by detaching, I'll consider it a challenge to solve it the hard way.
Not trying to sound all righteous but knowing me, next, I'll just hang my system off my hip while I work my way up that ladder limb pine. As for a life support, support, there too I'll take the time. Non life (or serious injury) support, support (or anchor), do whatever.
Again, just my view and with all the respect in the world for a friend I HIGHLY respect.
 
Yeah definitely. Time for a purpose-built "carabiner" with a curved reinforced spine profile designed for choking less than wide diameter spars. The trick there is that the gate always needs to be up or opposing the direction of load to implement safely. Not a huge issue to configue except you need to be able to quickly remove the carabiner from the lanyard or rope eye and flip the orientation depending on which direction you're setting the choke around the spar. just a heads up spec for whoever is going to realize this dream ;-)
-AJ
I remember a while ago seeing a linemans belt like contraption like the treesqeeze - the "rings" though were rectangular to take the flat belt. Thing was it had a side clasp or clip kind of like a triple locking biner but with a curved back to ride along the utility pole. There is a thread in Buzz a while back where a design and sketch was offered but I couldn't find it to link to. It's in here somewhere.
 

moss

Been here a while
I remember a while ago seeing a linemans belt like contraption like the treesqeeze - the "rings" though were rectangular to take the flat belt. Thing was it had a side clasp or clip kind of like a triple locking biner but with a curved back to ride along the utility pole. There is a thread in Buzz a while back where a design and sketch was offered but I couldn't find it to link to. It's in here somewhere.
That sounds pretty cool. Yeah I posted a speculative design/drawing, i’ll try and dig it up.

Here it is, this is when I made a choke system base on an F8 and thought this design would be superior to the F8:
https://flic.kr/p/2cCtxDS
-AJ
 
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Reach

Been here a while
Location
Atglen, PA
I remember a while ago seeing a linemans belt like contraption like the treesqeeze - the "rings" though were rectangular to take the flat belt. Thing was it had a side clasp or clip kind of like a triple locking biner but with a curved back to ride along the utility pole. There is a thread in Buzz a while back where a design and sketch was offered but I couldn't find it to link to. It's in here somewhere.
The lineman’s-belt-contraption sounds like maybe the BuckSqueeze? It appears to have the “carabiner” you’re talking about. https://buckinghammfg.com/products/bucksqueeze-for-distribution-483d/
 
That sounds pretty cool. Yeah I posted a speculative design/drawing, i’ll try and dig it up.

Here it is, this is when I made a choke system base on an F8 and thought this design would be superior to the F8:
https://flic.kr/p/2cCtxDS
-AJ
Great thread. You and Richard and a host of others make this a great field to be part of. And Lordy how I miss some like Tom Hoffman too. Cheers all.
 

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