Dead Wood

Tuebor

Well-Known Member
Location
Here
I just read this blog and really wish I had not. Another clueless "expert" posting poorly written misinformation.
Oh my, that was terrible to read. At least they managed to use punctuation, capitalize, and break it into paragraphs.
 

Treetopflyer

Well-Known Member
Location
Coastal N.J
Hey, keep studying trees, they take a lifetime to begin to understand fully or at least quite awhile if your a real deep thinker. Probably longer, really.. do yourself a favor and go back to the drawing board on that blog in my early opinion whilemi breezed over it.. from a professional stand point, it's not where you want it to be..
I left two large "dead" limbs on a tree today , one on another property. They didn't need to come down by my discretion at this time.. that doesn't mean to say I know any better, just that it doesn't have to be pushed as a sell all the time. Sometimes it is better to leave deadwood in its rightful place, not always.. best of luck and stick to the endless study of trees.
 

RBJtree

Well-Known Member
Location
Pittsburgh
I don't really understand why there would ever be a reason to leave hazardous dead limbs in a tree. Explain to me how it could help the tree. Assuming the cuts are made properly and you are not cutting into live wood. It might not help the health of the tree, but I can't see how it would hurt. If the tree is located near where people live, walk, kids play... its called a hazard prune for a good reason. I know a person who's kid was hit in the head by a falling limb at a pick your own apples farm. It fractured his skull and bruised his brain. He came out ok in the end, but it was very close.
 

Treetopflyer

Well-Known Member
Location
Coastal N.J
I don't really understand why there would ever be a reason to leave hazardous dead limbs in a tree. Explain to me how it could help the tree. Assuming the cuts are made properly and you are not cutting into live wood. It might not help the health of the tree, but I can't see how it would hurt. If the tree is located near where people live, walk, kids play... its called a hazard prune for a good reason. I know a person who's kid was hit in the head by a falling limb at a pick your own apples farm. It fractured his skull and bruised his brain. He came out ok in the end, but it was very close.
Was it dead dead or just dead :frenetico:...my limbs weren't dead dead dead , just cellular lack of water dead no leaves on them ..ya know looked like a winter limb ,, no leaves , not ready to fall dead..even though some you think are ready are pretty damn hard and very firmly attached despite the dead look.. I sorta joke with the deadness level, but seriously this is a deadwood conversation. Let it all all hangout out I say..
P.s. Glad that kid made out alright.. I have kids too I think we all think about that sorta thing , ya jnow safety first.. I see more green heavy limbs that concern me as much as any dead one , but I can't cut them all, nor would I want to..
 

RBJtree

Well-Known Member
Location
Pittsburgh
Was it dead dead or just dead :frenetico:...my limbs weren't dead dead dead , just cellular lack of water dead no leaves on them ..ya know looked like a winter limb ,, no leaves , not ready to fall dead..even though some you think are ready are pretty damn hard and very firmly attached despite the dead look.. I sorta joke with the deadness level, but seriously this is a deadwood conversation. Let it all all hangout out I say..
P.s. Glad that kid made out alright.. I have kids too I think we all think about that sorta thing , ya jnow safety first.. I see more green heavy limbs that concern me as much as any dead one , but I can't cut them all, nor would I want to..
I do often recommend to a customer to let a "freshly dead" limb go for a season to see how it does. I know they will just be dead, but it gives the tree a chance to begin to compartmentalise the dead and see if more dies. Once the compartmentalization process has begun, cut it.
 

evo

Well-Known Member
Location
My Island, WA
I don't really understand why there would ever be a reason to leave hazardous dead limbs in a tree. Explain to me how it could help the tree. Assuming the cuts are made properly and you are not cutting into live wood. It might not help the health of the tree, but I can't see how it would hurt. If the tree is located near where people live, walk, kids play... its called a hazard prune for a good reason. I know a person who's kid was hit in the head by a falling limb at a pick your own apples farm. It fractured his skull and bruised his brain. He came out ok in the end, but it was very close.
Not all dead is hazardous. I have a pine in my front yard where a lead broke a few years before we moved in. It’s 8 years later, and still solid as a rock.

Mass dampening, checking the movement of other limbs in a windstorm (limb clash). Habitat, introducing air, dying, and chemical changes into the heart wood. On and on.

Remember ‘hazardous’ means high likelihood of failure which can negatively impact a target, where the consequences of which are deemed intolerable to the property owner/land manager.

I’ve been winching out dead tops and leaders from alders, aka fracture pruning. Reducing the range of the remainder to fall short of targets. It’s very educational, predicting where the piece will break, and getting fooled.
 

RBJtree

Well-Known Member
Location
Pittsburgh
Not all dead is hazardous. I have a pine in my front yard where a lead broke a few years before we moved in. It’s 8 years later, and still solid as a rock.

Mass dampening, checking the movement of other limbs in a windstorm (limb clash). Habitat, introducing air, dying, and chemical changes into the heart wood. On and on.

Remember ‘hazardous’ means high likelihood of failure which can negatively impact a target, where the consequences of which are deemed intolerable to the property owner/land manager.

I’ve been winching out dead tops and leaders from alders, aka fracture pruning. Reducing the range of the remainder to fall short of targets. It’s very educational, predicting where the piece will break, and getting fooled.
Some good points. I never thought of some of those aspects in that way. Thanks.
 
Location
Tampa
On the subject of dead wooding or crown cleaning. There are a lot of tree services in my area that will just grab on to the dead branches with a pole saw and snatch them out. I have even seen some You Tube videos where the climber just can not get to the tip because it will not support the climber to make the pruning cut.

I had a Laurel Oak today that needed some dead wooding over the house. Some of the branches were about a 1 1/4" in dia. and 6 to 7 ft in length. The branches would not hold me and I did not have a good angel from the branch that I was on to make a proper pruning cut. I had no way to get to most of the cuts so............. I tossed a throw bag, secured the branch, and used my pole saw to snap them out.

I hate not being able to make good cuts, and have often wondered if it does more damage than just letting the branch shed on its own. Of course I can not leave a dead branch over a target.

Have any of you all snapped out branches that were dead that you could get to? I know.......... I know........... we all have, but If you have, did you ever see if it caused more decline to the branch it was attached to?
 
Well, all I know is that the last part of the tree to decay is the core of the branch stub where it is has been well preserved in the middle of the tree.

So, many thanks Tom, I'll add this question to the list for my grad work at Oregon State University...
 

Jeremiah Sandler

New Member
Location
Royal Oak
I don't hang out on Treebuzz, but I've read this entire thread and I thought it was really interesting.

I wrote an article about this subject. I thought you might like to see it.
 

JD3000

Most well-known member
Location
Columbus

guymayor

Well-Known Member
Location
East US, Earth
JD he has a reference list at the end.

Nice to see people trying to sort this out, but absolutism does not fit the entire range of scenarios.

Sugar stick concept was Shigo's not DD's, and removing deadwood for health still fits many cases.

I learned the "kick test" in Europe; retaining deadwood also fits many species and situations.
 

Edi

Member
Location
Illinois
All this is really interesting to read, but just wondering...after following all the procedures on the book for the tree care.
Have you ever had a tree die on you before it's life span vs the neighbors tree that never had any proper care?
Just wondering because often we don't do what the tree needs, we do what customers ask us to do and most of the time is just a cosmetic pruning.
 

CanadianStan

Well-Known Member
JD he has a reference list at the end.

Nice to see people trying to sort this out, but absolutism does not fit the entire range of scenarios.

Sugar stick concept was Shigo's not DD's, and removing deadwood for health still fits many cases.

I learned the "kick test" in Europe; retaining deadwood also fits many species and situations.

We call it Kung Fu pruning...
 

New2trees

Well-Known Member
Location
Maryland
Funny thing this being the top thread.

Yesterday the new owner of the house next door neighbor was having an oak cleaned up. It has been dropping branches for years and about a month ago dropped one about 50 ft long on a dead calm day (he has a young daughter and dog both of which play in the yard). The very young climber (skilled but carefree) has his tip set at the top (maybe 80ft high) and is going out to the very end of some long limbs with the ground crew walking beneath him constantly. I mentioned to the apparent foreman (who had walked over to my yard to talk to me about my oak) that the tree had lost similar branches on dead calm days to which he said, "Don't worry we do this for a living". Well about 2 minutes later the scaffold branch the climber was working on let go right at the intersection of the first lateral and the climber took a hell of a swing but luckily no one in the ground crew was hit by the wood and the trunk was covered with suckers so the climber hit them before the trunk and other than being banged up appeared OK but left right after.

PS I know this is kind of off topic....I just needed to purge the memory of the climber swinging inverted at times toward the trunk and the earlier feeling of (as a non professional) not wanting to step on toes but also not wanting to ignore the danger.
 

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