Coming: No new gas saws in CA

colb

Been here a while
Location
Florida
this will very likely be only for the general public. the technology isn't there, for large battery saws, there will be a professional exemption.
Maybe a displacement exemption? I have no purpose for anything gas below an ms 661.
 

Will stein

New member
Location
Berkshire county
How do they fight forest fires with battery powered chainsaws? Is there a battery chainsaw that can cut down a 40 in diameter tree to make a fire line? could it cut down dozens a day? That reality alone is a prescription for making fires worse...
Emmisions in California is exempt for emergency purposes. Thats why you see old international cal fire trucks. Convenient right?
 

evo

Been here a while
Location
My Island, WA
Maybe a displacement exemption? I have no purpose for anything gas below an ms 661.
I can see simply an argument for safety and efficiency with some of the post fire cleanup. Can you imagine the shit show with the wildland crews. ‘Welp let’s call for another helicopter drop for the generator fuel’…. Normal arb crews landscapers I could see a cut off around a 20” bar. But we aren’t dealing with hard woods much, I run a 20” 3/8 .050 set up on my 261. No way I’d use that on a madrone or oak removal but those are rare.
 
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ATH

Been here a while
Location
Ohio
I can see simply an argument for safety and efficiency with some of the post fire cleanup. Can you imagine the shit show with the wildland crews. ‘Welp let’s call for another helicopter drop for the generator fuel’…. Normal arb crews landscapers I could see a cut off around a 20” bar. But we aren’t dealing with hard woods much, I run a 20” 3/8 .050 set up on my 261. No way I’d use that on a madrone or oak removal but those are rare.
what I have seen: generators are included in the ban. So it would have to be a battery drop...

PS: if that were the case, could you imagine how many batteries will get left behind because they don't want to hike all that extra weight out? Hopefully there will be an emergency exemption as @Will stein said.
 

DSW

Location
Midwest
But seriously, this could be the impetus for the manufacturers to force us over to battery saws by limiting gas saw production. Probably wouldn't hurt to go ahead and think about getting and battery powered setup for climbing.

Truth be told it would have me heading the other direction if anything.
 

Bart_

Participating member
Location
GTA
Birdyman, in your weight calculation you only gave the bad news on the battery watt-hour density/weight. A bigger wattage/hp motor is going to pork up the unit too. I think big saws are about 8 or 9 hp whereas the current electric saws are just a few hp. I'll say 1 to 2 hp since a gas top handle is 2 hp and is generally conceded to be more powerful. So 5 to 9 x larger motor equals a bunch more weight too. In fairness it may not be that bad because high zoot electric motors screaming their guts out through reducing gears brings the motor torque requirement (and weight) down , which is what is done in current designs. And trickery can be done via reduced duty cycle / motor overloading / thermal cut outs etc but that starts to hit the "impractical" definition. So I'd say mid range saws might be achievable with moderately onerous weight penalty and reduced run time.
 

Bart_

Participating member
Location
GTA
Googled li-ion battery energy density and consensus was 50 to 100 times less/worse than gasoline. Brutal suckage! Motor weight might be relatively smaller slap in the face.

edit - found Hacker brand giant RC plane brushless motor 5 hp about 3lbs - not so bad, duty cycle might be appropriate

edit2 - ms460 15 lbs dry powerhead 6 hp electric motor looking more viable!

edit3 - found another brand 10hp continuous rc motor 7 lbs but the seller mentioned the caveat " with good continuous air cooling" hint there's gotta be some goodly derating occurring when a motor is cooped up inside a housing blasted with sawdust and chips. the game field shifts..
 
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ATH

Been here a while
Location
Ohio
Saw something the other day about axial motors being the future for some higher demand things (what I saw was specifically talking about electric aircraft) over traditional rotary motors. Will be interesting to see how technology changes.
 

Bart_

Participating member
Location
GTA
link to the axial? never heard of it before. Heard of pancake motors Kollmorgen(?) actually have one, formed/impregnated armature winding style (tiny rc), brushless - magnets are the rotor stationary field windings, normal brushed dc, etc. curious about it
 

ATH

Been here a while
Location
Ohio
link to the axial? never heard of it before. Heard of pancake motors Kollmorgen(?) actually have one, formed/impregnated armature winding style (tiny rc), brushless - magnets are the rotor stationary field windings, normal brushed dc, etc. curious about it
maybe the same thing?
 

Bart_

Participating member
Location
GTA
ok, axial thrust is the pancake motors like the kollmorgen. It has magnets on each end and the rotor is a thin disc with just windings. Mine is 1/2" shaft, super-nothing inertia and not so great torque. But it's ability to start/stop was very exceptional due to its torque to inertia ratio. I used to be more of a tech nerd. I even have a micro 400 Hz avionics gyro in one of my "stuff" drawers. Tube manual, anyone?

PWM drive electronics have really advanced too. mohms all round these days. hardly a drill without it.

edit - curiosity and boredom got the better of me...
 
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what I have seen: generators are included in the ban. So it would have to be a battery drop...

PS: if that were the case, could you imagine how many batteries will get left behind because they don't want to hike all that extra weight out? Hopefully there will be an emergency exemption as @Will stein said.
We hike everything out man don’t start talking shit you guys have no idea what we do
 
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ATH

Been here a while
Location
Ohio
We hike everything out man don’t start talking shit you guys have no idea what we do
I do know. I have been on the fire lines as a member of hand crews through NIFC (granted...it's been almost 20 years I was last out west). I know almost everybody would hike everything out. But I also know that it's "almost"... I also know that an extra 150 lb of dead batteries would take a few extras away from that "almost". I'm talking more about human nature....nothing against the guys that are fighting fire every year!
 

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