Climbing hitches geneology

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
Administrator
I think that this diagram is based more in the form of the hitches rather than their chronology in creation.

INteresting to see

 

David Restrepo

New Member
Location
Paris
I think that this diagram is based more in the form of the hitches rather than their chronology in creation.

INteresting to see

Thank you for sharing Tom, the genealogical tree is based on association like the title suggests, not a chronological timeline at all. It’s a praxis memorandum-vade mecum to retain how they are made.
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
Location
Michigan
Nice job trying to make sense of all the twistings and turnings!
The Buntline above the Helical and Penberthy has me puzzled as they were originally tied with a Bowline?
The padonic+ is new to me and tried to tie it from your description, which reminded me of a Combo Hitch concept, that I only researched briefly, of mixing up the tops and bottoms of various hitches. Also pictured are couple similar hitches I noticed while looking for the Combo.
1E1185DF-2588-46E8-89EF-D34020E98E2A.jpeg
 

David Restrepo

New Member
Location
Paris
Hi Brocky,
Excellent hitch, I'll give it a real test tomorrow.
I had to correct the Pindonga + description and the diagram because it's in fact closely related to the Knut H/Catalyst, not the Catalán.
In the one you shared the working end goes inside the bight like the Catalán seizing the bight, but feels familiar to the Pidonga + which is a popular climbing hitch in Argentina.
All the best,
David
Nice job trying to make sense of all the twistings and turnings!
The Buntline above the Helical and Penberthy has me puzzled as they were originally tied with a Bowline?
The padonic+ is new to me and tried to tie it from your description, which reminded me of a Combo Hitch concept, that I only researched briefly, of mixing up the tops and bottoms of various hitches. Also pictured are couple similar hitches I noticed while looking for the Combo.
View attachment 74533
 

David Restrepo

New Member
Location
Paris
Nice job trying to make sense of all the twistings and turnings!
The Buntline above the Helical and Penberthy has me puzzled as they were originally tied with a Bowline?
The padonic+ is new to me and tried to tie it from your description, which reminded me of a Combo Hitch concept, that I only researched briefly, of mixing up the tops and bottoms of various hitches. Also pictured are couple similar hitches I noticed while looking for the Combo.
The Knot that you're sharing corresponds to the description that I erroneously placed for the Pindonga +: A VT with 2 wraps + 2 crossings + a Catalán's bight...
I corrected it to:
The 'Pindonga +' is a 2 wraps-1 inverted crossing 'VT' with a 'Catalysts's bight. It is tied in the same fashion as a 'Prohaska' (a.k.a. 'Blake') using the thumb inside the first two wraps to pass the working end through, however in the opposite direction.
 

David Restrepo

New Member
Location
Paris
Nice job trying to make sense of all the twistings and turnings!
The Buntline above the Helical and Penberthy has me puzzled as they were originally tied with a Bowline?
The padonic+ is new to me and tried to tie it from your description, which reminded me of a Combo Hitch concept, that I only researched briefly, of mixing up the tops and bottoms of various hitches. Also pictured are couple similar hitches I noticed while looking for the Combo.
The round turn and two half hitches above the helical and Penberthy represents a secured coil with an additional knot, regardless of the bowline.
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
Location
Michigan
Thanks for the video, will look into it later. So this isn’t the Pindonga, but it is another hitch! Also shown is the progression of the Knut H from two eyes, HH use hitch,and a single eye that can be used on the end of a rope, which turns out to be a single eye version of the Enzyme.
9032CF8F-66A0-410E-A4C4-E55AE7EF59C7.jpeg
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
Location
Michigan
The Pindonga+ on the right and maybe the original Pindonga on the left. It seems he says original in the video when the bottom leg of the bight goes behind the rope for a second.
DAE1B2A8-AAB5-4FD4-8903-C3F9AEA99495.jpeg
 

David Restrepo

New Member
Location
Paris
The Pindonga+ on the right and maybe the original Pindonga on the left. It seems he says original in the video when the bottom leg of the bight goes behind the rope for a second.
View attachment 74577
You nailed it!
I got a confirmation from Rubén Skidelsky who came up with these 2 knots in Argentina. The one in the left is indeed the Pindonga and the one on the right is the Pindonga +. I got confused with the tight image that Rubén sent me. I had associated it before with the Catalán's (Tr33 Climb3r) bight and changed it to the Catalyst's bight. I modified the diagram once again associating it to the Catalán... Thanx.
 

David Restrepo

New Member
Location
Paris
Nice job trying to make sense of all the twistings and turnings!
The Buntline above the Helical and Penberthy has me puzzled as they were originally tied with a Bowline?
The padonic+ is new to me and tried to tie it from your description, which reminded me of a Combo Hitch concept, that I only researched briefly, of mixing up the tops and bottoms of various hitches. Also pictured are couple similar hitches I noticed while looking for the Combo.
View attachment 74533
Brocky, so this one corresponds to a mistake... it's a completely different knot, but closely related to the Pindonga +: Rubén called it the Valdotalan... a hybrid between a pure Valdôtin tressé & a Catalán.
 

Attachments

  • valdotalin.jpg
    valdotalin.jpg
    76.5 KB · Views: 8
Last edited:

David Restrepo

New Member
Location
Paris
The Pindonga+ on the right and maybe the original Pindonga on the left. It seems he says original in the video when the bottom leg of the bight goes behind the rope for a second.
View attachment 74577
Brocky, I placed the image in the article giving you credit. It would be more than great if you would make a drawing so that I can put the drawing instead. Also if you have drawings for any of the knots on the diagram I'll place them giving you the credit...and if you give me your real name I'll put it also if you want. Thanks a lot. I put your Enzyme drawing also. I think your drawings are really awesome, very concise and precise. Easy to visualize. Thanx.
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
Location
Michigan
Valdotalan is a good name for the error hitch above,that’s what I’m going to use. It would have been Pindonga+ Variation A otherwise, my usual, exciting naming system!

I thought you made a mistake crediting Tr33climb3r, a hitch name, with the Catalan, but the two are the same hitch, I never saw that. I saw the Tr33climb3r, which was originated by Casey Selner, a few years before the Catalan, which was done by Jesse Bouchard-Nestor. I contacted Casey about naming his hitch and he didn’t care about the name so I named it after his user name here.

The Tr33climb3r and the McDonald above are an example of what I call reversed function, the eyes exchange what they do in the hitch. Many can do this, this configuration just happens to be two different hitches. Another example is the Distel and Happy Hands.
From one double eye hitch you can sometimes get two more single eye hitches,as you‘ve stated, and a reversed function for another hitch, some hitches can be rotated 180 degrees to give another, and another for the 180 degree reversed, altogether, possibly six from one.

A goggle search shows that the Blake’s is also being called a Prohaska, which is the name of another hitch, shown in picture. According to Dan Lehman, Heinz never gave it a name and didn’t mind the Blake’s name. Dan has since called it the Progrip.

The Knut H wasn’t named for the exclusive HH use, it was the eighth variation of the Knut that I had come up with, just a coincidence.
FC758E85-79DF-49DB-A9C8-12B61A1EB9EF.jpeg
 

David Restrepo

New Member
Location
Paris
Valdotalan is a good name for the error hitch above,that’s what I’m going to use. It would have been Pindonga+ Variation A otherwise, my usual, exciting naming system!

I thought you made a mistake crediting Tr33climb3r, a hitch name, with the Catalan, but the two are the same hitch, I never saw that. I saw the Tr33climb3r, which was originated by Casey Selner, a few years before the Catalan, which was done by Jesse Bouchard-Nestor. I contacted Casey about naming his hitch and he didn’t care about the name so I named it after his user name here.

The Tr33climb3r and the McDonald above are an example of what I call reversed function, the eyes exchange what they do in the hitch. Many can do this, this configuration just happens to be two different hitches. Another example is the Distel and Happy Hands.
From one double eye hitch you can sometimes get two more single eye hitches,as you‘ve stated, and a reversed function for another hitch, some hitches can be rotated 180 degrees to give another, and another for the 180 degree reversed, altogether, possibly six from one.

A goggle search shows that the Blake’s is also being called a Prohaska, which is the name of another hitch, shown in picture. According to Dan Lehman, Heinz never gave it a name and didn’t mind the Blake’s name. Dan has since called it the Progrip.

The Knut H wasn’t named for the exclusive HH use, it was the eighth variation of the Knut that I had come up with, just a coincidence.
Thanks for the clarification Brocky, I made the changes.
Indeed the Catalán and the Tr33Climb3r are the same hitch, the only difference is the number of wraps.
How about this: If Casey Selner came up with the knot before Jesse and he is OK with people calling it the Catalán, it may be fine to leave his name as the source and call it the 'Catalán' (a.k.a. 'Tr33Clmb3r').
Or should it be the 'Casey-Jesse' hitch (a.k.a Catalán)?
When did Casey come up with the knot?
When did Jesse come up with the knot?
I could contact Jesse about it, he is a good friend of mine.

Tr33Climb3r: "I still use this one with the rope wrench when I use it. I love it. People calling it the catalon? Or something?"
https://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/new-hitch-for-the-hitch-hiker-x-and-other-things.38925/page-2

If Heinz Prohaska was OK with the ProhGrip being called the Blake, to avoid confusion, is best to call it the Blake (a.k.a 'ProhGrip'). ProhGrip in recognition of Heinz Prohaska.

"A reviewer of this article called it ProhGrip in recognition of Heinz Prohaska" (Son of a Hitch: A Genealogy of Arborists’ Climbing Hitches, mark Adams, 2005)

Dan Lehman:
"the "Blake's hitch" (which I thus like to call "ProhGrip" hitch)"
https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=5574.0

Dan Lehman:
It should be noted that the Prohgrip --as I like to call it (and I think Heinz likes the "Pro" if not "Proh" part, too ;) )
https://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=6919.0
 

David Restrepo

New Member
Location
Paris
Brocky,
I've got 6 of your drawings on the article already, I'm still missing a bunch... Do you have any of these already drawn by any chance?

Blake
Catalán (OK)
Catalyst
Cooper
Cornell (OK)
Distel
Enzyme (OK)
Innovation
Klemheist
Helical
Icicle
Klemheist
Knut (OK)
Knut H (OK)
Machard
Machard Tressé
Michoacán (OK)
Penberthy
Pindonga +
Prusik
Schwäbisch
Taut-Line
TK
Valdôtin
Valdotin Tressé
 

New threads New posts

Kask Stihl NORTHEASTERN Arborists Wesspur TreeStuff.com Kask Teufelberger Westminster X-Rigging Teufelberger Tracked Lifts Arbor Expo
Top Bottom