Brace or Remove?

macrocarpa

Well-Known Member
Location
Midwest
Would you attempt bolting this back together for a customer that wants to do anything possible to save the tree? (It’s already an ash tree on life-support) Or pull the plug? There is not much canopy weight on the left side and a lot of reduction pruning possible.
 

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Reach

Well-Known Member
Location
Atglen, PA
If they really want to do anything possible to keep the tree a little longer, I would brace it, and add a disclaimer to the contract that does not guarantee the tree will survive or thrive much longer.
 
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macrocarpa

Well-Known Member
Location
Midwest
That’s what I was thinking. In the picture the red would be a lag bolt and the blue lines would be bracing rod. Any different suggestions?
 

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Reach

Well-Known Member
Location
Atglen, PA
That’s what I was thinking. In the picture the red would be a lag bolt and the blue lines would be bracing rods. Any different suggestions?
Looks like a plan to me. I would consider a cable up high too, to reduce the strain on the bolts if possible, but that depends on the structure of the tree and whether or not there’s any life left up there.
 

ATH

Well-Known Member
Location
Ohio
How bad would it look to take that whole piece off?

Certainly reduce as much as possible.

Should ideally be 1 rod higher. Measure diameter of piece you are bracing. Put a rod that distance above where the 2 pieces come together. Or a cable high up as @Reach said...but a lot of open grown ash tend to fork, then fork, and fork again so there is nothing large enough to cable in to.
 

macrocarpa

Well-Known Member
Location
Midwest
How bad would it look to take that whole piece off?

Certainly reduce as much as possible.

Should ideally be 1 rod higher. Measure diameter of piece you are bracing. Put a rod that distance above where the 2 pieces come together. Or a cable high up as @Reach said...but a lot of open grown ash tend to fork, then fork, and fork again so there is nothing large enough to cable in to.
It would be pretty ugly to take the entire section. No good cabling locations unfortunately.
 
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owScott

Well-Known Member
Location
Lafayette
If they really want to do anything possible to keep the tree a little longer, I would brace it, and add a disclaimer to the contract that does not guarantee the tree will survive or thrive much longer.
Depends on the targets and consquences of failure. If failure could impact something other than the customers property the owner should be made aware of the liablity and the fact that installing all that hardware is an acknowledgement that the tree is hazardous. Add to the contract a clause releasing you from liability if the tree fails after you install the hardware.
 

evo

Well-Known Member
Location
My Island, WA
That’s what I was thinking. In the picture the red would be a lag bolt and the blue lines would be bracing rods. Any different suggestions?
Don't forget a rod above the union. Personally I'd skip the lag, a do bracing rods to hold the "crack" and one above the union. Maybe a cable as high as possible (even if above the union by only 3-6')
 

colb

Well-Known Member
Location
Florida
I’ll have to see if a rod above the union is possible as by the book. It will be a funky angle. Thanks!
I'm wondering if you have the book, based on the initial suggestions. It's completely way off the ANSI standard. Get both the Part 3 and the BMP and use them to design your support system. Don't take on liability from a non-ANSI standard installation unless you have reason to deviate, and you inform your client in writing that your installation does so, and you secure their written consent for that.

You also seem to have a tree health issue, and that needs both a unified and separate consideration from the structural issue. Are you going to mulch with fresh arb chips? Is pacolbutrazol helpful to ash in your area/circumstance? Is EAB a factor and will you treat preventatively with emamectin benzoate or can you provide palliative care in the form of phosphojet, etc.? Will invasive support installation techniques compromise tree health?
 

macrocarpa

Well-Known Member
Location
Midwest
That red lag line looks short.
Is that a literal length indicated?

That bad fork has withstood every load put upon it, right.

Reinforcement after reduction should make it way "stronger".
The red line doesn’t represent the literal length. I’ll have to look at the tree again to see if I can put a bracing through rod above the union but there’s some funky branching on the backside that had me considering a lag.
 

macrocarpa

Well-Known Member
Location
Midwest
I'm wondering if you have the book, based on the initial suggestions. It's completely way off the ANSI standard. Get both the Part 3 and the BMP and use them to design your support system. Don't take on liability from a non-ANSI standard installation unless you have reason to deviate, and you inform your client in writing that your installation does so, and you secure their written consent for that.

You also seem to have a tree health issue, and that needs both a unified and separate consideration from the structural issue. Are you going to mulch with fresh arb chips? Is pacolbutrazol helpful to ash in your area/circumstance? Is EAB a factor and will you treat preventatively with emamectin benzoate or can you provide palliative care in the form of phosphojet, etc.? Will invasive support installation techniques compromise tree health?
This is the book I have. I posted the first picture without giving it much thought. Attached revised picture if I’m able to install a through rod above the union based on diameter I will, otherwise it’s gonna have to be a lag.
 

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colb

Well-Known Member
Location
Florida
This is the book I have. I posted the first picture without giving it much thought. Attached revised picture if I’m able to install a through rod above the union based on diameter I will, otherwise it’s gonna have to be a lag.
The BMP is super useful. The ANSI is going to be the more important and I would order it before you install.
 

guymayor

Well-Known Member
Location
East US, Earth
Totally impossible to opine without seeing the crown. But hey this is the internet.

BMP much more useful than Part 3, but it overreacts to cracks. 1 cable at most Might do it; impossible to say.
 

macrocarpa

Well-Known Member
Location
Midwest
Just a follow up on this. If the tree is removed the customer is required by the HOA to plant a sweetgum which he despises because of the “gumballs”. When I told him about the fruitless variety -happidaze- he seemed interested and is thinking it over. In the meantime I put some straps in the tree and gave him the option of 2 bolts, 1 cable and heavy reduction pruning but I encouraged removal and replacement. Its already on EAB life support. Thoughts?
 

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Reach

Well-Known Member
Location
Atglen, PA
Personally, I think you’re on the right track, as long as the homeowner wants to spend the money necessary to save the tree. Be sure that he is aware, and is told in writing, that what you are doing will not guarantee the tree will not fail, and be sure he knows this tree will likely not live much longer, that this is only a way to extend the life of the tree a short time.
 

flushcut

Well-Known Member
Location
Delavan, WI
^ditto
If they are paying.

I will do what the owner wants and do so following the standards and practices of our profession as long as they are paying. One instance I had was a willow lost a large limb and upon removal of said limb I observed the tree had massive horrible decay and informed them it was just a matter of time. Fours years later the tree failed and I removed the rest. Much easier from the ground lol.
 
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