Who do you trust, and why?

Levi.CO

Well-Known Member
#1
The EPA? State Universities? Are state universities not funded by agro businesses? When it comes to chemicals in the landscape, why? Time and time again throughout history we have learned that things which we thought were safe in fact were not, but now we have it right? I know I did a thread or two like this in the past but... I think about this daily. Even in the so called liberal tree hugger county I live in I see rampant use of herbicides, pesticides, nitrogen (so much that you can smell when you drive with your windows down) etc. Is this a necessary risk to take for generations yet to come?
 

JeffGu

Well-Known Member
#2
None of those farmers who worked the land without chemicals, dryland farming, are around anymore. The current ones grew up with anhydrous ammonia, herbicides and pesticides, center-pivot irrigation and 300-HP tractors. We've got some around here that think a tough year of farming is having to make six phone calls, instead of three, to get somebody out there to do the actual work.

This time of year, a day doesn't go by when I don't have to drive through a cloud of pre-emergent herbicides. And, they pick a windy day to do it. Apparently, it makes sense to them to disc their fields on windy days, too... clouds of dust half a mile high blowing across the highways. The usual smell of cow ass is mixed with the smells of dirt and herbicides.

Ain't modern farming wonderful?
 

SeanRuel

Active Member
#3
Yep, I generally trust land Grant research universities. With a grain of salt for sure, but I feel the majority of researchers are good honest people with a commitment to quality science. Chems are over used imo, but scientist aren't solely or even primarily responsible for that. It's driven by marketing/advertisers IMO, the real intrusive untrustworthy mf ers.
 

Levi.CO

Well-Known Member
#4
Dang, Jeff, makes me feel bad for bitching about the landscape chemis... I'm glad I no longer live near big farming.

Sean, I agree, my gut feeling is that:
I feel the majority of researchers are good honest people with a commitment to quality science
However I wonder where the funding comes from to do the research and what kind of pressure various folks are under to approve chemi's for use... Also, I have a sense that a lot of good, honest research can be easily misinterpreted or skewed to serve certain agendas, no?
 
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#5
The EPA? State Universities? Are state universities not funded by agro businesses? When it comes to chemicals in the landscape, why? Time and time again throughout history we have learned that things which we thought were safe in fact were not, but now we have it right? I know I did a thread or two like this in the past but... I think about this daily. Even in the so called liberal tree hugger county I live in I see rampant use of herbicides, pesticides, nitrogen (so much that you can smell when you drive with your windows down) etc. Is this a necessary risk to take for generations yet to come?
Don't worry about our/kids/next generations future Levi, it's all good.
Big Ag to the rescue! Dow's got our backs, Monsanto's lookin' out for our best interests.
Trust me....
We are poisoning our environment on soooooo many levels.
But it's fine as long as there's money being made, you know, our economy is what's really important!
How bad could hosing down our landscapes with herbicides/pesticides/fertilizers be?
The impacts to what? Chew up and spit out our land/forests/etc. to extract resources, be it oil, coal, minerals, timber, water diversions, without much thought of the impact to anything else, We don't think about it enough! Bury our heads in the sand.
We're flooded with products/advertising that make EVERYTHING better.
But Hey, as humans, this was ALL put here for our consumption...it is our God given right, right?
Your mind should be at ease... Ol' Pruitt is rollin' back what little safeguards and regulations we have(had) in place to preserve the health of the only planet that sustains us....
The great garbage avalanches in 2505 will wipe us out anyway!!

I never post - but you're right Levi, it's scary...
we don't think/speak about it enough!
Sorry ALL for my tree hugger lefty bullisht.
 

Levi.CO

Well-Known Member
#8
@Slacktender Hey, you hit on some great points! (in my opinion...) Lost Coast, this wasn't far from you- https://www.kcet.org/shows/earth-fo...lifornias-worst-inland-environmental-disaster

I recently decided that must be a big part of the issue here, the belief that god made the earth and man and gave man dominion so we can have our way with it however we see fit... I don't buy it. More into the Chief Seattle way of thinking, personally- "Man does not weave this web of life. He is merely a strand of it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself."

Idoicaracy, yes, sadly you may be right.
 
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#9
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@Slacktender Hey, you hit on some great points! (in my opinion...) Lost Coast, this wasn't far from you- https://www.kcet.org/shows/earth-fo...lifornias-worst-inland-environmental-disaster

RE the G O D, I recently decided that must be a big part of the issue here, the (christian) belief that god made the earth and man and gave man dominion so we can have our way with it however we see fit... I don't buy it. More into the Chief Seattle way of thinking, personally- "Man does not weave this web of life. He is merely a strand of it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself."

Idoicaracy, yes, sadly you may be right.
Wow -
Thanks for that link Levi, Scary... a few footsteps east of here.
I'll read the whole story later.
Movie night with the Mrs.

Idiocracy was the first move filmed as a comedy....
that became a documentary!
 
#10
Movie.... Ha.
Levi,
reading the story about about the spill in 1991 into the Sac. river in Dunsmuir brought back memories. I was in high school, we were on a family trip up to Oregon to raft the Rouge River that summer and I remember all the commotion along I-5 North of Lake Shasta.
Didn't seem like a big deal to me at the time.... train derailed into the river, spilled some stuff, whatever.
I guess being 17 and not aware/informed (WOKE)!? HA!... of the impacts/damage to all sorts of ecosystems wasn't that important.
.......Unfortunately, even if that happened today it would be a short blip in the news cycle and would be forgotten quickly, except by all the voiceless plant, animal and aquatic species affected, from Lake Shasta, down to the Delta and even into S.F. Bay. The disruption for years to life cycles in the watershed.... Awful.
We're all de-sensetized (sp)? to stuff like this, and when it does happen there needs to be more involvement to stop the flow...... HA!?..... of contaminates into waterways from train derailments and pipelines, the Dakota Access pipeline and offshore oil rigs and, and, and, and, and.......
These days, I feel all to aware of the damage being done on many fronts, and try not to get too depressed thinking about it.
Basically, we just need to do a better job of protecting our environment, because this little planet is all we've got folks!... lets not rush through it!
Can I get a Hallelujah?
Wait.... 'cause we all know G O D ain't gonna save us from ourselves!

Sorry everyone - Friday+Barley pops=another Tree hugger rambling.
 

Levi.CO

Well-Known Member
#12
Almost every applicator I have met or talked to says something like "I am responsible with this, I know the right way to use it, others are irresponsible, it is irresponsible for me not to apply chemis because I'm so responsible, I read the label" :wtf:

Part of the reason I bring this up again is because I injected trees with toxic chemicals for no reason beyond vanity, ignorance, arrogance, currency and trying to succeed in business. I feel like a lame ass for doing it. Hopefully by speaking against it I will begin to right the karmic scales and not be forced to soak in a tub of Emamectin Benzoate for all eternity in the next phase. :envidioso
 
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JD3000

Well-Known Member
#14
Almost every applicator I have met or talked to says something like "I am responsible with this, I know the right way to use it, others are irresponsible, it is irresponsible for me not to apply chemis because I'm so responsible, I read the label" :wtf:

Part of the reason I bring this up again is because I danced with the devil and injected trees with toxic chemicals for no reason beyond vanity, ignorance, arrogance, currency and trying to succeed in business. I feel like a lame ass for doing it. Hopefully by speaking against it I will begin to right the karmic scales and not be forced to soak in a tub of Emamectin Benzoate for all eternity in the next phase. :envidioso
Painting with a bit of a broad stroke perhaps?

I no longer do much in the way of PHC but would agree, as I've said before, that pesticide use is overemployed in many circumstances and that many applicators know just enough to be dangerous. That said, I have no problem with them being used to help save the occasional heritage or soon to be endangered species. It's a matter of dosage and scope IMO.
 

Levi.CO

Well-Known Member
#15
Perhaps. But maybe we need broad strokes. With all of the trouble in the world do we really need to take the risk of applying chemis for landscape trees? It seems dangerous to me. I like Ash trees, which is also part of the reason I decided to put the juice out, they are some of the best urban trees we have here. But I also wonder about how and where the chemicals are produced and transported from town to town.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster

Dosage and scope, yes. But, that is also part of the problem, in my eyes. An applicator determines, yes, in this yard or park I will juice the trees to try and save em from the bug, no problem, one yard, a thimble full of emben... but zoom out, and how many times is that happening daily in every neighborhood and park across the nation?
 
#16
We've ALL done things we regret or are not proud of.
Damn you - almighty dollar!!!
But like JD3000 said, sometimes, correct dosage/application can be the right thing to do.
Moderation is the key.... to MOST things in life.
Too many companies oversell their PHC programs, because after all, it's easy money!

Karmic retribution sholdn't be a problem here Levi. I'm pretty sure you'll balance it out.
 
#17
I will juice the trees to try and save em from the bug, no problem, one yard, a thimble full of emben... but zoom out, and how many times is that happening daily in every neighborhood and park across the nation?[/QUOTE]
Taking care of one problem often leads to another.
Unfortunately, you're right; in the long run which is the bigger problem?
 

oakwilt

Well-Known Member
#19
I fought stage 4 NHL starting in 1991. In 1992 I had a bone marrow transplant.
Clinical trial or I'd be decades dead. A failed trial at that. 1 survivor.
I worked exclusively in 9 national forests..silviculture. Extensive outreach and hard-fought data acquisition proved my former colleagues had all died too. Ages at the time, all my. NHL.
A Dow engineer but mostly a PR promoter at the time, for 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T, went from one region to the next demonstrating injestion by waterglass, the negative LD/50 concerns. He's long dead too, and I still will piss on his grave.
 

oakwilt

Well-Known Member
#20
And to even ask if corporate data, or funded lab data, falsified to gain marketplace, is "sometimes questionable", and should be "believe" "lefties?", you have something or your children certainly will..will not be a good or fun outcome. That's the reality of Ag-Biz. Rainbow Tree Care, Texas A&M, Iowa State, and countless others.
Even Pentachlorophenol is back on the market as 6,500 newly labelled and passed compounds since the election of big business. Again.
Today I fight again. Heart (yes, more than one replaced) and secondary, rapidly metastisizing metabolic response to total body radiation years ago. Herbicides documented by liver biopsies and indexed to the manufacturer.
It's your life. Do as you please, but assisting the poisoning of our dying biome is criminal.
 
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