Treeage effectiveness of bark beetle attacked pine

Nish

Well-Known Member
I've got a client with a 22" dbh loblolly with lots of pitch tubes on the lower trunk, though the canopy is still full and is healthy green. A large pine nearby has already died. The remaining pine would be a costly removal. Any info on the effectiveness of Treeage microinjections (or anything else) would be much appreciated.
 

Nish

Well-Known Member
Also, to combat any blue stain fungus introduction, might there be an effective systemic fungicide that can be injected at the same time?

Update: I just found a relevant research article on the topic (adding Propiconazole to the Emamectin Benzoate): https://www.fs.fed.us/psw/publications/fettig/psw_2014_fettig002.pdf

Does anyone have experience injecting Propiconazole through an Arborjet system? (Today I also looked at a big sycamore threatened by anthracnose.)
 
Last edited:

colb

Well-Known Member
One problem is that treeage uptake is slower than pine beetle lifecycles. This was astutely pointed out to me by Jeff Eickwort at fdacs. Especially in hotter climates that accelerate the lifecycle, if it takes a month for the tree to become protected, the beetles have already moved their infestation front. This is a problem that the charisma alone of treeage cannot solve. The research on uptake used the original treeage formulation, not the g4. This may bear on the uptake rate. At day's end, you need to know the pine beetle life cycle time in your area, then decide, using math, whether the beetles or treeage will win out.
 

colb

Well-Known Member
I looked into combating bluestain about a year ago and did not find anything acutely relevant.

In forestry, a whitestain fungus can be applied to outcompete the bluestain, enhancing the appearance of lumber. That's not really relevant to our purposes, and it was the best I could find.

There is one ips that infests the canopy only (avulsis?). It may be possible to prune infected limbs and inject, but I am speculating - I do not know if bluestain goes systemic immediately through downhill vascular flow, or if the vascular flow stays uphill enough to prevent the bluestain from spreading to the trunk.

I treated a longleaf that had about 5 infested branches, after pruning them off. That was 2 years ago. Tree looks great. My understanding is that bluestain clogs the vascular system slowly, so I am not sure if absence of evidence is evidence of absence in this one case.

Btw, you have not stated the particular beetle. Do you know what you've got? The life history can really affect your plan of attack.
 

JD3000

Most well-known member
An autumn app should give you protection for the following 2 maybe more seasons.

Focus on cultural stress management too or treatment could be for naught.
 

colb

Well-Known Member
At day's end, you're probably looking at removing the leading edge of pines. Identify which way the infestation is moving. Might look like a widening cone, with dead trees at the origin and green/yellowing ones at the front.

If the client has money, then you may consider spraying the trunks of all the nearby pines from a bucket. Can't recall the pesticide name... Once again, if you know the beetle species you can apply the pesticide with more precision based on their life history.
 

colb

Well-Known Member
An autumn app should give you protection for the following 2 maybe more seasons.

Focus on cultural stress management too or treatment could be for naught.
@JD3000 for several or most relevant "pine" beetles, treeage will not treat a current infestation on a trunk - the tree is a goner, right? The way I understand it is that Treeage for pines is almost 100% preventative unless the insect is less pesky than ips and spb.
 

Nish

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately I didn't ID the beetle.

I've been watching a young pine on my own property hang on for the last 4 months or so with many similar pitch tubes around the lower trunk. I've been thinking optimistically that the presence of pitch tubes isn't conclusive evidence that the beetles have survived entry and can successfully spawn. The young pine I have in mind is otherwise growing in ideal conditions.

We'll spray surrounding pine trunks with bifenthrin, along with the wood from the beetle killed pine (the property makes it too difficult to haul away). No bucket, so we'll just have to spray as high as we can get with our tree sprayer or trombone sprayer.

The pine is growing in a natural area. Culturally I don't know that there would be a lot to do for it this time of year except maybe remove some competing trees (which seems risky, if the guy's pine is likely to die).
 

colb

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately I didn't ID the beetle.

I've been watching a young pine on my own property hang on for the last 4 months or so with many similar pitch tubes around the lower trunk. I've been thinking optimistically that the presence of pitch tubes isn't conclusive evidence that the beetles have survived entry and can successfully spawn. The young pine I have in mind is otherwise growing in ideal conditions.

We'll spray surrounding pine trunks with bifenthrin, along with the wood from the beetle killed pine (the property makes it too difficult to haul away). No bucket, so we'll just have to spray as high as we can get with our tree sprayer or trombone sprayer.

The pine is growing in a natural area. Culturally I don't know that there would be a lot to do for it this time of year except maybe remove some competing trees (which seems risky, if the guy's pine is likely to die).
The different species tend to stratify ecologically. While possible, it is less likely that the species infesting the young pine is the same as the one infesting the loblolly. Each species has unique outcomes. Also, there are species that produce exudate from their holes while not intrinsically killing pines - for instance the turpentine beetle.

Here is a quote from an fdacs publication on ips:

"The three species of Ips tend to colonize different parts of the tree, although there is considerable overlap between
these territories (Coulson and Witter 1984). I. calligraphus usually attacks the lower bole or portions of stumps, trunks, and
large limbs greater than 10 cm (4”) in diameter (Connor and Wilkinson 1983). I. grandicollis prefers to infest recently felled
trees and slash, but also can be found infesting weakened living trees, most heavily on large limbs and the mid to upper bole
of the host. I. avulsus prefers small-diameter slash, but will attack groups of young trees and the crowns of large trees (USDA
Forest Service 1985). I. avulsus shows a higher degree of aggregation behavior than some other Ips species (Mason 1970)"

https://www.freshfromflorida.com/Divisions-Offices/Florida-Forest-Service/Our-Forests/Forest-Health/Forest-Insects/Pine-Bark-Beetles
 

JD3000

Most well-known member
Right @colb if the beetles have moved deep it won't affect them but future generations would be. Expensive products though
 

beastmaster

Active Member
I worked for a company in New Mexico that claimed to be a pine beetle expert. I wasn't involved directly in their injection program, but I know they would inject a fungacide and a systematic for the beetles. We had a lot of ibs, western pine beetles, and what ever beetle infests pinion pines. Was it a successful treatment? Can't say. I thought the guy was a snake oil peddler my self.
 

colb

Well-Known Member
I worked for a company in New Mexico that claimed to be a pine beetle expert. I wasn't involved directly in their injection program, but I know they would inject a fungacide and a systematic for the beetles. We had a lot of ibs, western pine beetles, and what ever beetle infests pinion pines. Was it a successful treatment? Can't say. I thought the guy was a snake oil peddler my self.
For me, it requires a lot of knowledge to apply each treatment. I'm relatively new to it, so I have to draw in a lot of help from my work community. I feel like I'm able to make a positive difference in a small handful of cases where treatment, biology, and culture align - and thus be good, ethically. However, I am not yet efficient enough to monetize it. There are just too many unmonetizeable rabbit holes.

For example, a flipflopping client had a black cherry with peach tree borer and bacterial slime flux. Easy to treat, right? First off, it is "expensive", in the $250 range for ptb treatment, then another ~$100 for the antibiotic. Second, they have a dog, so all the non-organics are out because the dog might eat the cherries. That's fine for the ptb, but brings down the persistence to one year instead of two. But there's no antibiotic formulation rated for dog ingestion, so I can't treat the slime flux without getting into my liability zone. There is less point to treating the tree and client backs off.

Spb or ips in a suburban pine grove? Can't inject in Florida because the life cycle is too fast, so I have to spray. Can't treat it unless I have a bucket, bucket access, and spray gear aloft (which cuts into the rated bucket capacity at 8 lbs. per gallon). Ever see a grove where the bucket has full access? Pretty rare, I can think of one or two...

At the end of the day, I get to treat a small handful of projects - maybe one or two per year. I'm fine with it, but I don't see how anyone is monetizing it ethically. I admit that it may just be my inexperience.

@guymayor Guy, are you monetizing these treatments and do you have any general or broad ideas about doing so ethically?

@JD3000 you're not in the contractor position but do you see things that guys like us should be doing?
 

JD3000

Most well-known member
Not any more true enough.

Can u also sell the cultural upkeep and ensure that the homeowner will follow up on it to better keep the critters away? Furthermore, when populations get high enough they can go after healthier trees as well. It's a bugger indeed.
 

colb

Well-Known Member
Cultural upkeep - like crating their dog every day during cherry season? :nocausagracia:;)

Annnd... treating healthy trees?

I'll be honest, I feel like this answer is a "nope" to the question. Just saying that to keep the discussion real and you damn better know that I really value your opinion. Is it possible that ethical treatment of tree pests/pathogens is not actually monetizeable? Could we admit that, if it were the case, or would it damn us to "volcano forecaster" status? I just know that we all work in an industry with a huge amount of unknowns (rigging point ratings, tree risk, non-mammalian sciences), and if we can identify those things then we are being more professional, right?
 

Treetopflyer

Well-Known Member
Beetles and blue stains are super shitty, they attack naturalized non native pinus thunbergii on our barrier islands.. I tell clients to water the trees they want to keep during drought times. Hopefully the tree can then plug the entry holes naturally. It's a very environmental sensitive area on our small islands imho.. sadly I get calls from people who spent a shit ton of money to treat with chemicals.. they need thier dead trees removed cause some non caring money first company applied this or that and the trees still died.. Some trees that I've prescribed a drip line are still hangin tough in hard hit areas. Not all but some.. once infected with blue stain I watch them die over course of about 1 month.. maybe these low air temps weve had recent will knock the beetles down a bit.. i hope.
 
Top