tree drilling

I have been working with a client on a large White Oak. It has a 20"+diameter limb overhanging the home that has what used to be a decent size cavity on the top of the limb close to where it joins the trunk. I didnt want to remove the limb due to its size so we have done a tip weight reduction and installed a dynamic cable.

My question is, has anyone drilled into the bottom of a limb like this to allow for moisture to drain? I have also read some about scribing the closing wood to encourage a more rapid closure. Thoughts?
 
Impossible to say without seeing a pic or knowing more.

Generally it's a bad idea to break barriers. Plus the tree would work to close any hole you make.

Is the hole as bad as the attached?
 

Attachments

  • 382862-cooncankersmall2.webp
    382862-cooncankersmall2.webp
    157 KB · Views: 112
Can you share the author and date of what you read about scribing. Maybe there's something new but for a LONG time I've read that scribing is a bad technique.

Shigo maintained that wound closer isn't as important as reducing decay/wounding. Scribing generally means more wounding.

With no more info I'd be inclined to do just exactly what you did.
 
Guy, the cavity is actually closing nicely already. Its about 12" long by 3" wide at the center and shaped like a football. I wanted to get the sludge/water out before it closed and I can't get in there too good.

I read about scribing here. It wasn't much but it was a few comments between guy and oceans.
 
Tracing only removes loose or damaged wood, per A300.

To remove gunk, just rinse it out? take up a gallon jug or hose or blower? I use rubber to 'cap' wounds sometimes, when water *seems* like it might be a problem.

3" wide (the important number) on a 20" dia. branch...I wish all trees had such small problems. If it's closing nicely, it may be stronger than before!
 
Ahh. Tracing. Sorry, I used the wrong wording there and I guess I read the comments wrong. I thought you were talking about getting slightly into the cambium to stimulate growth around the opening. Good comments. Thanks!
 
O yeah that...tracing/removing bark that is living and attached, but was compressed (damaged) by girdling objects such as roots, does allow or speed the growth of phloem underneath.

Unrelated to managing an old open wound. I think...anyway, take a camera into the tree next time!
 
With respect to removing the water and sludge from the cavity, it's hard to see how to do that without breaching healthy wood and compartmentalization boundaries. We know from this forum and elsewhere that some amount of decay and voids is not only acceptable but interesting to have in landscape trees!

Decay goes fastest with intermittent wetting and drying. Wood that is kept wet all the time decays very, very slowly.

I grew up with the mark of professionalism being the use of brass tubes to drain the water from wetwood columns in American elm and beech. The pipes not only broke boundaries during installation, they provided fresh air to the aerobic decay fungi in the tree. Decay would proceed pretty quickly in those cases. The elm were a particularly good source of oyster mushrooms while the snags still stood!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Tracing only removes loose or damaged wood, per A300.

To remove gunk, just rinse it out? take up a gallon jug or hose or blower? I use rubber to 'cap' wounds sometimes, when water *seems* like it might be a problem.

3" wide (the important number) on a 20" dia. branch...I wish all trees had such small problems. If it's closing nicely, it may be stronger than before!

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you adhere the rubber to the wound? zip ties? I assume you don't staple or nail it to the tree. Is this rubber a pliable sheet?
 
We fasten the rubber to the wound with small staples. This rubber is a pliable sheet; Innertubes work well. Learned this from Dirk Dujesieffken in Germany.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I thought you were talking about getting slightly into the cambium to stimulate growth around the opening.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not remember reading this or being taught this although my gut feeling is that this was true with any plant.

Very minimal damage to a certain area would only attract more attention and ultimately strengthen that area? Provided there were optimal conditions and the plant was not too badly stressed already.

Good info on this thread.
 
Good thread.

Guy (or KTSmith), I've heard of arborists using that expanding spray construction foam to fill voids. I was leary at first because I know wound paints should be non-phytotoxic (i never use them-not too many major pests around here)

Anyway, what is the industry's standing on this?

Also, as tennarbor mentioned the cavity was encroaching the branch collar of a large limb. At what point do we say the limb's gotta go in effort to keep the rot from creeping into the trunk?
 
" I've heard of arborists using that expanding spray construction foam to fill voids. I was leary at first because I know wound paints should be non-phytotoxic (i never use them-not too many major pests around here)
Anyway, what is the industry's standing on this?

Kevin's old colleague, Alex S., said foam might have a role to play, but I'll let him tell ya more on that.

O and Kevin, do you know of any research on sealing trunk wounds, as opposed to branch wounds?
 
Thanks all,
I have no problem with Dirk's (and others) use of pliable rubber to keep water out. For it's effectiveness, you should talk to someone who uses it.
As for spray foam, It might have a role to play as a cosmetic treatment for the tree or a psychological treatment for the arborist or homeowner. I have no problem with it, but be aware that the products I've seen do break down with exposure to UV from daylight. I've seen some applications with gnawing or chewing marks that I've figured to be caused by rodents.
My entry into tree wound response with Dr. Shigo was with wound treatments after branch removal. The collective view, from Alex and from his European colleagues (including Dirk) was that if the position and manner of the cut was correct, no wound treatment provided a benefit. By "manner" I mean seasonal or vector timing among other things.
Healthy trees carry dying, dead, and decaying branches all the time. During normal development, branches are being shaded and shed. Usually, the network of living tree cells (symplast) is withdrawn from the fading branch and physiologically shed well before it is physically shed. That physical shedding is usually mediated/facilitated by wood decay fungi.
Sorry for that exposition, but it goes to Tennarbor's question about decay encroaching on the column. What does that look like in the case of interest? In the natural branch shedding process in response to canopy closure described above, decay will go slam bang up to the visible collar and stop. Yes, an attenuated cone of embedded branch may rot out, but be surrounded by healthy stem. So no treatment is necessary there. In storm breakage that leaves a branch stump, the symplast will die back due to aeration before a compartmentalization boundary will form in the living stub...or the formerly living stub just won't have the juice and the decay will proceed, but again be restricted to the branch base.
Where the neat process fails is with canker fungi, but that is a story for another thread!
 
Thanks for all the great info here. I always enjoy reading knowledge filled posts by veteran arborists.

I am going to go back and get some more pictures. Its time to inspect the support system anyway.

I had an interesting experience with foam. Another client had us out for some work and I noticed a foam filled cavity on a silver maple where a large limb had been removed. The client said the foam had been in there for years. I had always thought that to inhibit closure so I pulled all of it out by hand. It as I got about half way through, I got into a lot of "muck". I cleaned the cavity out well and left it. The branch had been cut properly and the wound was sealing nicely. We went back not even a full year later and I couldn't even come close to getting my hand back inside. I was shocked at how much it had closed in a matter of months.

This was far from a scientific study, but it confirmed for me if nothing else, the lack of need for foam in a cavity.
 
Hey there Mr. Logic, you don't want to use the spray foam. I was cutting a pretty good size Red Oak that had the spray foam in a hollow. It overheats and turns to a sticky tar that dulls the chain quickly.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hey there Mr. Logic, you don't want to use the spray foam. I was cutting a pretty good size Red Oak that had the spray foam in a hollow. It overheats and turns to a sticky tar that dulls the chain quickly.

[/ QUOTE ]
So the message there is: don't use foam, and then cut through it.

ok, got it!
cool.gif
 

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom