this is what happens when you tip tie a large vertical limb

#21
ugh, made me nervous just watching. Needs to go be a grounder for a while until he learns how to properly do things. I'm not saying things can't happen to even the most experienced climbers, but he's just to careless...
 

Daniel

Well-Known Member
#23
That's a good question. We might want to start by asking was this a careless error? He had only been climbing a year. My guess is he didn't know any better. I would say that for the experienced guys , yes , careless errors make up the majority of accidents. though that could be wrong. Probably a lot of guys out there with plenty of experience that have been using unsafe techniques the whole time.
 
#24
Found out at the Waco, Tx ISA convention this week that "struck-by's" have surpassed electrical contact as the #1 cause of injury/death of both climbers and spectators.
 

Daniel

Well-Known Member
#25
does that mean there are more struck by's or less electrocution or both???

I would guess with all the internet trained tree guys out there these days , safety is taking a big hit
 

southsoundtree

Well-Known Member
#26
Been that way for a while, I believe.

Something about electrical education, and knowledge of safe/ unsafe work habits has brought it down.

Not to say struck-by incidences have gone up, down, or remained steady.
 
#27
Struck bys meaning that climbers are becoming more careless or less educated climbers are taking on jobs they shouldn't. At the conference they told of a few stories where clients or neighbors who just wanted to see what was going on up close were killed. One in case of a large removal the crews set up the boundaries about 150' away from the 100' tree, not the required 2x the tree height. When the tree hit the ground a piece the size of a football flew out and hit a guy right between the eyes killing him instantly. These stories scare the sh*t out of me.
 

Nish

Well-Known Member
#28
One in case of a large removal the crews set up the boundaries about 150' away from the 100' tree, not the required 2x the tree height. When the tree hit the ground a piece the size of a football flew out and hit a guy right between the eyes killing him instantly.
I don't think it's a good idea to base policies on sensational, freakish events. That sounds pretty freakish.
 
#30
I don't think it's a good idea to base policies on sensational, freakish events. That sounds pretty freakish.
I'm only the messenger. 2) Drop zone standards are twice the height of the tree. If their safe zone was setup correctly then it would have a been "freak" accident. Now they have to live the rest of their lives wondering what would have happened if they had followed the right safety protocols.
 

BRT

Well-Known Member
#37
I remember that you liked this vid, Murphy. It shows tip tying gone right, in my opinion.
Done right because------it's more about where the rigging point is in relation to the tip-tie. The distance & angle between the two were the "bad actors" in this scenario.

And--as has already been pointed out: this wasn't truly 'tip' tied.

*Like the thread, btw. Thanks Daniel.
 

Daniel

Well-Known Member
#38
I remember that you liked this vid, Murphy. It shows tip tying gone right, in my opinion.

That is an excellent video.... it shows some good tip tying... however not all pieces were tip tied , showing that its not always needed or desirable... Vid also shows EXCELLENT coordination with the groundie... And taking out some large pieces/whole trees, with the tip tie being the only way to take them that big and how that can be easier to handle large pieces on the ground..

There are many moments of great finesse in that video.... so much so that most of it would go unrecognized by the average joe tree cutter... Precision and control, well placed overhead anchor points (blocks) and good cuts, and excellent roping by the groundies... AWESOME WORK... a fine example of high level skills and experience....

The only problem with video is that some rookie is going to see it and try to emulate the tip tie without understanding the ALL the expertise behind the rigging... Which brings us to the Human video... and he;s not the only one.. I've seen a lot of videos many by highly respected pros that show unneeded tip tying which creates unnecessary danger... and in some cases close to fatal results...

For me tip tying is a rare event.... almost never needed...... while we all have different styles based on equipment, skill set, types of trees, and the topography of the work space, I think there is way too much unneeded tip tying .... unless you need the clearance a but tie or a slightly tip heavy near balance tie off is a much better choice than a tip tie....
 
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