Streamlining workflow in spready oaks...

trenchfoot

New Member
Hello treefolk.

My usual SOP for big spready oaks if they are getting the full treatment is a basal for ascent then a switchover to the highest possible canopy anchor somewhere in the middle of the tree. The akimbo has proven godly for that quick switch. Then i'll divide the tree up mostly by good peripheral tie ins and redirect from my original canopy anchor, work that part of the tree, go back to the original canopy anchor, swing somewhere else, redirect, etc. I redirect with a thing called the m-bight redirect which is nice in that i can remove it remotely while bucked in and swing back to center.

My issue is it's time consuming in the long run to have to come back to the original canopy anchor path at the very end, especially if i had to travel down like 40' off a particular redirect and then have to ascend alllll the way back up to exit the tree. These are usually older oaks that are specced for work internally and on the tips; the full shebang.

Do you guys run into similar issues? I've thought about maybe moving the canopy anchor around instead, but it's really fast to just throw in a redirect and be good to go...
 

oldoakman

Well-Known Member
I have taken to setting my canopy anchor with a short leg and attaching a retrieval line on the short leg that I pull when back on the ground. My retrieval line is a petzl 11mm line that I got from a friend whose parents found along a country road so I dont use it at all for life support. Another friend of mine has a dedicated line that looks to be 6mm or so that serves the same purpose. Btw, welcome to the buzz
 

Serf Life

Well-Known Member
Certainly run into that a lot, oaks are bread and butter so lots of full canopy prunes. If unable to set tip from ground or unsure of branch stability I'll advance tip when in the tree. Taking time to set perfect spot over limb(s). Making a plan and taking time to check out the structure has saved lots of work and taken years to improve (never master, keep working) but invariably have to climb back to work the climbline over limbs etc.
Sometimes switching to ddrt is faster in specific trees, sometimes a polesaw/clip saves time but othertimes is a hassle. Coastal grown oaks can be very difficult to climb efficiently and polesaws are almost mandatory while saving re-directs.
Honestly, not worrying about time helps me go faster. More in the zone. We prune out caterpillar nests in the winter which only get spun on the very tips of twigs, the whole spread of the crown. Talking up to 500 nests in a 18" dia tree, making 1/2" or less cuts preferably with a pole clip. Thinking about time and efficiency can hinder the work at hand, in my experience. Personally like minamalist style and gear to promote good techniques but I bet there's some fancy stuff out there too.
 

trenchfoot

New Member
that's a pretty neat way to avoid redirects, that video. That looks like a perfect "finishing move" for your last column of the tree, so you can just descend all the way to the ground at the end.
Honestly, not worrying about time helps me go faster. More in the zone.
I think that's kind of the heart of the issue right there. I get a little preoccupied with man hours and end up pushing too hard to be quick. Rather than relaxing and letting myself visualize a good work path through the tree. Thanks for the welcome, thanks for the advice.
 

rope-a-dope

Well-Known Member
If i am breaking sweat just getting a line set in a big tree, I start thinking about a second rope. You describe a pretty standard approach, tackle one limb at a time, then move as needed for the next section. But what if that next part already had a rope waiting in it from your first trip up to the original rig? Or even set from the ground?
 

trenchfoot

New Member
If i am breaking sweat just getting a line set in a big tree, I start thinking about a second rope. You describe a pretty standard approach, tackle one limb at a time, then move as needed for the next section. But what if that next part already had a rope waiting in it from your first trip up to the original rig? Or even set from the ground?
So I think about doing that a lot, but sometimes having a second system set up into my bridge from the get go makes me a little claustrophobic. Like after a big ascent I’m scrambling around on some twiggys and the second system is getting wrapped all over the fucking place.

Also sometimes it’s a real bastard to have your second tie in (set from the ground) to be isolated properly in line with your first one if that makes sense. Having a clear path from one to the other basically.

I need to start thinking about a second rope more though.
 

JeffGu

Well-Known Member
...having a second system set up into my bridge...
Set the lines from the ground. If necessary, after you set the second line, hook your throwline to the tail of it and make a second throw that lets you pull the tail to a place you can reach from the first (ascent) system. That way, you only need to be tied into one system at a time. After switching over, leave the first system where you can reach it from the second, if you'll need to switch back for any reason.
 

Mowerr

Well-Known Member
So I think about doing that a lot, but sometimes having a second system set up into my bridge from the get go makes me a little claustrophobic. Like after a big ascent I’m scrambling around on some twiggys and the second system is getting wrapped all over the fucking place.

Also sometimes it’s a real bastard to have your second tie in (set from the ground) to be isolated properly in line with your first one if that makes sense. Having a clear path from one to the other basically.

I need to start thinking about a second rope more though.
Their sayying to leave the second system away from u, not tied into it.
 

swingdude

De' Island Buzzer
Their sayying to leave the second system away from u, not tied into it.
Ah fuck all that noise. Big spreaders, set two lines and work what you can from the first. Descend and pull line. Head up second and work that section. Fucking around busy ass tropical trees with 2 lines is a sure way to want to put a gun in your mouth....
 

colb

Well-Known Member
My kit for a southern live oak prune is almost always one 200 ft. climbing line at a time on a base tie and a dmm hook on 50 feet of line. The hook is multipurpose - helps attain position, retrieves cut branches that hang up, lowers branches onto the roof, dead woods, transfers between main leaders. It gets a bit tangly, but also increases work efficiency and reduces energy expenditure.

It's hard to predict where a second system should be installed, so I don't usually do that. Occassionally, there is a spreading tree whose structure lends itself to a second line but it's pretty rare.
 

trenchfoot

New Member
My kit for a southern live oak prune is almost always one 200 ft. climbing line at a time on a base tie and a dmm hook on 50 feet of line. The hook is multipurpose - helps attain position, retrieves cut branches that hang up, lowers branches onto the roof, dead woods, transfers between main leaders. It gets a bit tangly, but also increases work efficiency and reduces energy expenditure.

It's hard to predict where a second system should be installed, so I don't usually do that. Occassionally, there is a spreading tree whose structure lends itself to a second line but it's pretty rare.
I actually climb a 200’ line too and have a hook on the end of my lanyard. The tangly factor can get super frustrating. I think the key difference between my approach is I’m going with a canopy anchor for the reduced load on TIP, and because the way i make my redirects, it uses 3x as much rope, effectively making a 3-1 every time I redirect. This is really great for reachy branches. The problem is I would never be able to accommodate that with a basal, just not enough rope. I may try moving away from the m bight.


The other issue I have with working with a basal is that a lot of the time I get sketched out working right next to the part that is under tension. Or that standing/tension end gets in the way of swings or something. This is awesome food for thought though because your process is very similar to mine. How do you stow your long hook line? I daisy chain my stupid long lanyard and use those little tree stuff clips to keep it on my ass. Still gets tangled all the time though.
 

Mowerr

Well-Known Member
Ah fuck all that noise. Big spreaders, set two lines and work what you can from the first. Descend and pull line. Head up second and work that section. Fucking around busy ass tropical trees with 2 lines is a sure way to want to put a gun in your mouth....
Wasn't my advice lol
 

colb

Well-Known Member
I actually climb a 200’ line too and have a hook on the end of my lanyard. The tangly factor can get super frustrating. I think the key difference between my approach is I’m going with a canopy anchor for the reduced load on TIP, and because the way i make my redirects, it uses 3x as much rope, effectively making a 3-1 every time I redirect. This is really great for reachy branches. The problem is I would never be able to accommodate that with a basal, just not enough rope. I may try moving away from the m bight.


The other issue I have with working with a basal is that a lot of the time I get sketched out working right next to the part that is under tension. Or that standing/tension end gets in the way of swings or something. This is awesome food for thought though because your process is very similar to mine. How do you stow your long hook line? I daisy chain my stupid long lanyard and use those little tree stuff clips to keep it on my ass. Still gets tangled all the time though.
I try to run the base tie side next to the trunk. It does require monitoring, but not much, for a prune especially. I usually check it mainly after unweighting from a regular-shaped trunk because my base tie is simple. Also, the base tie side can help out on short swings sometimes, so it is what it is, more than a drawback.

I keep a rope wrench attached to my hook line, and that is either attached to a bridge ring or hanging free. If attached to the bridge ring and I'm using it or going to use it, then it just hangs out. If I'm not using it, I'll attach the ~5kn biner to my left hip storage ring. If hanging free, it is next to the hook and the hook is attached to my left saddle ring by the dmm ~5kn biner atop the hook. I just trail a long tail. Usually have to draw it through a few times, but 50 feet is like nothing...
 

SomethingWitty

Arkansawyer
KISS
Don't feed tail through so much. Drag what you need after tossing ponytail redirects through and then either toss your system back out of the redirects or take the system off and pull the slack. Piling 80 feet of tail or more twenty times in a climb is a lot of time and a lot of work.

I stack a lot of redirects after a basic knot cinch. I hang what I call a "redirect eraser" before I take my first one. Clip a pinto (or any pulley. Or just a carabiner. Seriously anything works pretty well.) around your climb line on a separate rope that you pull up when you set your canopy tie. When you are done, pull them all out with the eraser (easy as a base tie) and then retrieve.
 

trenchfoot

New Member
I stack a lot of redirects after a basic knot cinch. I hang what I call a "redirect eraser" before I take my first one. Clip a pinto (or any pulley. Or just a carabiner. Seriously anything works pretty well.) around your climb line on a separate rope that you pull up when you set your canopy tie. When you are done, pull them all out with the eraser (easy as a base tie) and then retrieve.
Holy shit that’s a game changer
 

SomethingWitty

Arkansawyer
Holy shit that’s a game changer
Thank you. I don't think I pioneered it, but I have gotten compliments from people who have not seen it before. Complicated canopy ties are all the rage, especially with the base tie falling out of fashion. They are also far too finicky to justify the trial and error required to dial everything in perfectly. As much as I love the knot block ring-n-ring canobase, it just ends up taking longer and requires more thought and planning to set up and retrieve.
 
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