SRT DRT DmRT vs. MRS SRS What do we call it?

yoyoman · Jan 27, 2018

Brocky · Jan 27, 2018

Nice video, you make a good point. The hard part is getting everyone to use the same terms. On a technical note, there is about 7 minutes of dead air at the end.

DSMc · Jan 27, 2018

Brocky said:
.... The hard part is getting everyone to use the same terms.....

This^ A well-done video, as always, Richard. But as stated above, I believe that a firm commitment by the climbing community will do more for reducing confusion than any refinements made to the acronyms. We need to just pick them and stick with what we choose.
All acronyms need to be defined when voiced for the first time. Discrepancies and variables can be addressed at that time. Both the systems and the techniques overlap depending.... like tree work itself. In my mind, nailing it down to one "right way" of saying it is less important than a consistent understanding of how they are used.

yoyoman · Jan 27, 2018

Yep, all of that is not within my control, I just try to be logical. I just see the powers-that-be going to acronyms that are so close, to almost be meaningless. I mean truly, lose one letter and you lose everything. Two baskets, a moving basket and a stationary basket, then a lot more explaining to do.

yoyoman · Jan 27, 2018

DSMc said:
,....nailing it down to one "right way" of saying it is less important than a consistent understanding of how they are used.

I so agree, and I think those go hand-in-hand. Imagine the acronyms we're discussing and someone asks, what method is used and the answer is, I climb on a moving rope or I climb on a stationary rope. That leaves so many questions to me and it doesn't even address where the ends might be connected.

yoyoman · Jan 27, 2018

With all the complexities of tree work rope access, I can't imagine putting it all in less than three baskets.

surveyor · Jan 28, 2018

As far as acronyms go, I think also when a climber is using two ropes, each SRT, it should be known as TRT, Twin Rope Technique ......
Well maybe TSRT : )

colb · Jan 28, 2018

surveyor said:
As far as acronyms go, I think also when a climber is using two ropes, each SRT, it should be known as TRT, Twin Rope Technique ......
Well maybe TSRT : )

Is TRT two ropes running in one device, Gordon, or two devices?

surveyor · Jan 28, 2018

I would be inclined to say two ropes, two devices, (and two bridges)
but I am likely biased. : )

Brocky · Jan 28, 2018

It seems to me that two ropes and two devices would be stationary double ropes technique, or double stationary rope technique, SDRT or DSRT, because each rope could be used independently.
Twin Ropes is using two ropes like one, so just one device. I don't know, I'm speculating. That's the way it is in rock climbing.

chiselbit · Jan 28, 2018

I’d go with dsrt for two ropes two devices and twin rope technique (trt) for two ropes one device.

SomethingWitty · Jan 29, 2018

Can we ban acronyms? Does anyone else have interest in doing that?
This thread has me so upset about them.
At some point, I will certainly waste time with someone that I could be learning from just figuring out what the letters that they are saying are supposed to be saving time by representing.

Tom Dunlap · Jan 29, 2018

To me it's either SRT...DRT...DdRT

All the other bits of alphabet soup are combinations or derivatives of the Big Three. Much too confusing

yoyoman · Jan 29, 2018

Tom Dunlap said:
To me it's either SRT...DRT...DdRT

All the other bits of alphabet soup are combinations or derivatives of the Big Three. Much too confusing

Agree, those cover so much of what we do. Only thing is that little d always confuses everyone and making it an m for moving seems to add clarity.

yoyoman · Jan 29, 2018

Brocky said:
It seems to me that two ropes and two devices would be stationary double ropes technique, or double stationary rope technique, SDRT or DSRT, because each rope could be used independently.
Twin Ropes is using two ropes like one, so just one device. I don't know, I'm speculating. That's the way it is in rock climbing.

Too many doubles sounds like troubles.

How about 2 single ropes or 10 or how ever many the climber wants to hang on.

Brocky · Jan 29, 2018

The little m instead of d would clear things up. The assumption that the rest of the techniques are static would have to be made. The DRT would cover both two ropes-two devices and competition foot locking.

Edit: I guess foot locking would actually fit the TRT category more?!!!

yoyoman · Jan 29, 2018

The past use, IMO, was confusing about double vs doublED. Dd...when in fact both are in reality, "doubled", just that one moves while ... doubled...the other does not.
Also an important distinction and one being overlooked, is the two fixed ends of DRT vs a fixed end / free end, of SRT.
Give this some thought. 2 or tandem SRT has 2 fixed ends and 2 free ends probably very far apart, DRT has 2 fixed ends at the climber. Where the ends are or are not connected, is huge.

yoyoman · Jan 29, 2018

Brocky said:
The little m instead of d would clear things up. The assumption that the rest of the techniques are static would have to be made. The DRT would cover both two ropes-two devices and competition foot locking.

Edit: I guess foot locking would actually fit the TRT category more?!!!

Personally I think the assumption is self made, if it's not moving ..... it's......

DSMc · Jan 29, 2018

I personally am not a fan of acronyms. They all need to be learned and rarely are stand-alone explanations on what they cover.

As tree people, we should be very familiar with the dangers of trying to simplify names and terms while at the same time hoping they will be self-explanatory to those that read them. What we do and how we work is simple only in concept. The details are anything but simple.

I was resistive at first but am OK with just using MRS and SRS as a baseline. Does it cover all variables within that framework? Of course not but nothing ever will. The biggest step we can take towards clarifying our terminology is to come together as a group and agree on something to use and stick with it.