Safe PHC Programs Low-NO Toxicity

#22
What about soil applied insecticides. This still an issue with pollinators?
Systemics applied to trees/shrubs regardless of the mode of application need to be done with caution. Linden come to mind. A fall soil application of imidacloprid will be in full concentration in the tree the next summer when the tree is in flower.
Rhododendron is another example.
No neo nics on flowering plants=no risk to pollenators.
Keep in mind imidacloprid can have residual effect in some trees for 3-5 years.
 
#23
We've started using DutchTrig as a DED innoculant. All natural, quick and easy application.
I laugh with TreeJunkie. I don't get why everyone says 'inoculate' for DED when they mean 'treat' for DED... I hear this all the time. I think it's a fancy term people use to "sound professional" although for anyone in-the-know, it does the opposite... No offense nuthin_special, we ALL make mistakes.
Inoculate means to "introduce an infective agent into an organism."
:)
 
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mrtree

Well-Known Member
#24
But Dutch Trig is an inoculation of a substance that causes a reaction in the tree that allows the tree to fight a subsequent infection. The word inoculate is actually correct in this case, although you are not inoculating for DED but rather to prevent it, and certainly not to treat it.

Dutch TRIG is a "vaccine"; from the website:
Dutch Trig® is a non-chemical, non-toxic, biological control agent, or vaccine. The vaccine consists of a suspension of spores of a very specific strain of the fungus Verticillium, (not genetically modified), in distilled water. This spore suspension is injected in the elm in spring.
 
#25
But Dutch Trig is an inoculation of a substance that causes a reaction in the tree that allows the tree to fight a subsequent infection. The word inoculate is actually correct in this case, although you are not inoculating for DED but rather to prevent it, and certainly not to treat it.

Dutch TRIG is a "vaccine"; from the website:
Dutch Trig® is a non-chemical, non-toxic, biological control agent, or vaccine. The vaccine consists of a suspension of spores of a very specific strain of the fungus Verticillium, (not genetically modified), in distilled water. This spore suspension is injected in the elm in spring.
From what I understand Elms are able to fight off Verticillium. Being a vascular disease whatever they do works to "vaccinate" them from DED.
Have you found that this product works? The only person I know that has used it tried it on a tree that was already flagging. Needless to say it didn't work.
I'm currently using Alamo but have heard that it is only effective for one year contrary to what the label states as it does not move into new wood. Macro injections seem to be the way to go for best prevention.
 
#26
Another question I have is how much of the possible colony collapse of bees could be attribited to arboriculture, especially when only treating non flowering large trees applied as a soil drench or kioritz very close to the trunk VS the use of these chemicals broadcasted over a farm field, over thousands of lawns and used as foliar sprays on flowering plants?
This is certainly up for debate and I agree with the thesis of it may be worse for the environment to let hemlocks die.....but why aren't things like hort oil considered? We can save hemlocks and many other trees without Merit. I really can't think of a problem that Merit treats that can't be treated another way.

Also, it's worth mentioning that Agri-Fos is not actually phosphorous (which IS a major leaching nutrient). It's actually a form of potassium that works to naturally improve plant health. I think it's one of the better low toxicity tools for PHC.
 
#27
We use hort oil and BT lots. Not sure what some of the others are, maybe use the active ingredient instead of the trade name.

I find that there are tons of pests that we don't need to treat for. maybe i'm losing money by showing up to a house and telling the HO that the damage is inconsequential and doesn't need treatment. Probably tossing away an easy $100 but i think that pesticides should be a last resort in all cases.

That said: look into TreeAzin (a neem oil product). There's no way that Merit (or any imidacloprid formulation) is low toxicity.

Bugs have to eat too right? They don't all have to be killed.

Looks like safari is far from low toxicity with a such a broad spectrum of control and a soil half life of 22-68 days.

There are really only a few pests that you listed that actually kill trees.

Another thought guys...

How many of us are immediately jumping to treat the "problem?" Are we looking a root causes of the issue? I am guilty of this myself. While many trees do need treatment, I also think there are a fair amount of issues (especially disease issues), that are somewhat secondary. How many of these infected trees are buried, planted too deep, chlorotic from nutrient deficiency/pH imbalance, have girdling roots, etc.? I think we could certainly limit some pesticide treatments (and still make $) by focusing on these issues first.
 
#28
This is certainly up for debate and I agree with the thesis of it may be worse for the environment to let hemlocks die.....but why aren't things like hort oil considered? We can save hemlocks and many other trees without Merit. I really can't think of a problem that Merit treats that can't be treated another way.

Also, it's worth mentioning that Agri-Fos is not actually phosphorous (which IS a major leaching nutrient). It's actually a form of potassium that works to naturally improve plant health. I think it's one of the better low toxicity tools for PHC.
Borer and miners need to be treated systemically. Unless you time the crawler phase perfectly hard scale often need systemics as well.
First step in any tree assessment is to look for abiotic disorders.
If a pest needs to be treated the least toxic approach should always be considered first.
 

JD3000

Well-Known Member
#29
Conserve SC, Azatin XL, Floramite SC are effective products with low LD50s and are also gentle on beneficials/predators.
I've found Triact 70 neem oil to work wonderfully on mites but not worth it when it comes to apple scab despite label claims. It may work on scab with a 7 to 10 day spray interval but Ive found I rarely have time in the spring to keep such a tight spray schedule so concentional triazole fungicides such as tebuconazole or propiconazole are still the norm.
 

JD3000

Well-Known Member
#30
Old thread but I'm bringin it back.

How about Acelepryn with some Azatin this summer for Japanese beetles? Might be the only way to treat a linden in bloom that's getting eaten up but I never could treat in the past cuz of bees. Roses too
 
#31
Acelepryn is great stuff. Superior control of Lepidoptera, and it's so low-toxicity to mammals (humans included!) that it doesn't even have a signal word. BUT... it's not labeled for Japanese beetles as a foliar spray or as a soil injection/drench. For JB grubs in turf, yes. For adult beetles on lindens or roses, no. It is labeled for aphids though, when applied as a soil injection, so there could be some utility there for linden treatments.

The other piece of the puzzle though is that it's CRAZY expensive. I think the last time I priced it it was upwards of $700 for a half gallon. If you do a lot of caterpillar sprays you'll be fine, but it's not the product you want to buy to use 1 or 2 ounces for one job and then have it sit in your inventory.
 

JD3000

Well-Known Member
#33
I was also thinking this would be used at select high end residential sites as well as backpack spraying of roses where I would only need millileters per 3 gls or so.
 

JD3000

Well-Known Member
#36
Check it out. HWA is on there I think.

We've all be hoping they would do more trials with rhis stuff and it has finally started to happen
 

JD3000

Well-Known Member
#37
Update: Acelepryn and Azatin working great for Japanese beetles when applied before major adult emergence. Not as effective when extensive feeding has already occured.

Azatin and Conserve SC worked no better than Azatin alone and significantly less effective than Acelepryn with Azatin as far as I could tell. Perhaps a stronger rate would work better.
 
#38
Update: Acelepryn and Azatin working great for Japanese beetles when applied before major adult emergence. Not as effective when extensive feeding has already occured.

Azatin and Conserve SC worked no better than Azatin alone and significantly less effective than Acelepryn with Azatin as far as I could tell. Perhaps a stronger rate would work better.
Are you using the 2 oz. per 100 rate with the Acelepryn or does it need to be higher for Jap Beetle? I was quoted $965 for 64 oz. of Acelpryn, just over $30 per 100 cost I guess that's not so bad.
 

JD3000

Well-Known Member
#39
6oz and up per hundred but I'm doing high end residential, some places I have carte blanche to do whatever I feel needs to be done and how.
 
#40
6oz and up per hundred but I'm doing high end residential, some places I have carte blanche to do whatever I feel needs to be done and how.
Gotcha, my local ag station tested it this year at 2 oz. Per 100 for gypsy moth caterpillars and got good control. Might be my go to next year. It would be nice to have a bee safe product for jap beetles.
What's your cost per ounce for the one your using?
 
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