Rope Wrench optimized for larger lines?

John@TreeXP

Well-Known Member
The one time I tried it, the ZZ/RW combo tended the climbing line and slack very smoothly, similar to the Uni. I do have the utmost respect for the RW with a good hitch knot, but when choosing between devices, I lean more toward mechanical devices. Hitch cords are a lot more rope friendly than cam'd or teeth grabbing ascenders or multicenders, but tending a hitch knot is pain too. Still, it's always good to have options and backup systems.
 

diogenes

Member
With my homemade wrench (photo above) I had some issue with it being less responsive and smooth than I wanted on the 13mm Ash but solved this when I tried contouring the two bollards to fit the radius of the rope. Made all the difference and also seems a lot kinder to the rope. Very smooth now with either a Distel or Knut or the ZigZag.
Hello, just wanted to clear up that tachyon is not 13mm, it is listed as 11.5
 

Treetopflyer

Well-Known Member
The one time I tried it, the ZZ/RW combo tended the climbing line and slack very smoothly, similar to the Uni. I do have the utmost respect for the RW with a good hitch knot, but when choosing between devices, I lean more toward mechanical devices. Hitch cords are a lot more rope friendly than cam'd or teeth grabbing ascenders or multicenders, but tending a hitch knot is pain too. Still, it's always good to have options and backup systems.
I've found a 4 over one Michoacan with sewn eyes arou prus 10mm on hitch climber pulley bottom attach with shorty tether wrench to be quite amazing on vortex down to 11.5 mm lines to be very easy to break the knot and tend. I mention all the details becuase I think theyre important to How well it works. It's the little things that make something like tending effortless compared to pain in the ELBOW. here's a pic on scandere 11.7 ..that is buttery smooth mm..mmmm
 

Attachments

Burrapeg

Well-Known Member
Your right but it's so damn firm and nice it acts larger than life ;)
This Tachyon Ash I bought is bigger than 11.5. It is at least 1/2 inch in diameter and about the maximum diameter that slides through my ZZ. It also is not all that firm, but rather quite soft and pleasant to handle.
 

Treetopflyer

Well-Known Member
This Tachyon Ash I bought is bigger than 11.5. It is at least 1/2 inch in diameter and about the maximum diameter that slides through my ZZ. It also is not all that firm, but rather quite soft and pleasant to handle.
I own the line of which you speak. I would say it could be quite soft and pleasant to handle whilst remaining firm. Firm like your bulldog bone doesn't make it flat like pancake ,but still knots and doesn't act like a piece of steel wire? I mean it's tachyon , like the town bike we all had a ride .. flashy colors too. Or maybe you think theyre dull ;)
 

Burrapeg

Well-Known Member
. . . flashy colors too. Or maybe you think theyre dull ;)
No, I love the colours. One of the things that made me buy it. These rope size ratings, maybe they mean under a load? I just slipped a metric mike across the stuff and it is between 13 and 14 mm. But I guess it will tighten up and shrink in diameter a bit with weight on it. Anyway, I really like it both with the Bone and also RW/ZZ and hitches.
 

Treetopflyer

Well-Known Member
I don't own a micro meter but I'll say I thought it was odd that my Yale 11.7 arrowfrog was thinner side by side to the tachyon 11.5. I don t know how they rate or measure the lines, curious as well . Each manufacturer does their own way I'd imagine. Hopefully a more knowledgeable answer arises out of this. To be labeled 11.5 and measure at home micro meter at 13 or more doesn't add up I'd say. Under load does sound more like it. Tension a line like tachyon that stretches a bit more than some other modern arb lines and it would have to thin up a bit, I do believe that all lines do under tension. Edit to add millimeters are pretty small in the big picture But add up quickly, haha
 
Last edited:
Hey guys, there are plenty of threads to post in about your combinations of cordage and rope that work well together. I am also not interested in discussing the zig zag or any mechanicals. That's really beyond the scope of what I'm getting at. I can tie hitches that work great with fatter lines. The hitch isn''t the issue. In fact, weighted ascent and descent are both great with my setups, including the 13mm lines.

The specific issue I'm attempting to address is larger lines not moving through the wrench itself in as smooth of a fashion. If you're moving through the canopy under your own power, and attempting to feed yourself slack, at some point you won't be able to get where you need to go unless you put your hand above the wrench and shove it down into your hitch. This is harder to do with fatter lines.

And to add to the topic of lines seeming fatter then they are, many lines fatten up over time, especially ones that tend to milk.

But back to what I was saying, imagine a different sized wrench that released easily on larger lines, one that would let you move unencumbered though a canopy when your weight isn't fully in it.

And I'm not a light climber by any means
 

John@TreeXP

Well-Known Member
Hey guys, there are plenty of threads to post in about your combinations of cordage and rope that work well together. I am also not interested in discussing the zig zag or any mechanicals. That's really beyond the scope of what I'm getting at. I can tie hitches that work great with fatter lines. The hitch isn''t the issue. In fact, weighted ascent and descent are both great with my setups, including the 13mm lines.

The specific issue I'm attempting to address is larger lines not moving through the wrench itself in as smooth of a fashion. If you're moving through the canopy under your own power, and attempting to feed yourself slack, at some point you won't be able to get where you need to go unless you put your hand above the wrench and shove it down into your hitch. This is harder to do with fatter lines.

And to add to the topic of lines seeming fatter then they are, many lines fatten up over time, especially ones that tend to milk.

But back to what I was saying, imagine a different sized wrench that released easily on larger lines, one that would let you move unencumbered though a canopy when your weight isn't fully in it.

And I'm not a light climber by any means
I guess there's a reason why not more climbing gear isn't suited for the 13mm lines, except maybe when deciding on 10mm versus 8mm hitch cords. Rigging lines are built to endure greater loads, but for climbing needs, the 10mm-12mm size seems to fill the broadest spectrum when it comes to effectively getting the job done. I hear you though, better grips and fatter lines, aside from the added weight, are way more user friendly and easier to hold onto.
 

Jehinten

Well-Known Member
Hey guys, there are plenty of threads to post in about your combinations of cordage and rope that work well together. I am also not interested in discussing the zig zag or any mechanicals. That's really beyond the scope of what I'm getting at. I can tie hitches that work great with fatter lines. The hitch isn''t the issue. In fact, weighted ascent and descent are both great with my setups, including the 13mm lines.

The specific issue I'm attempting to address is larger lines not moving through the wrench itself in as smooth of a fashion. If you're moving through the canopy under your own power, and attempting to feed yourself slack, at some point you won't be able to get where you need to go unless you put your hand above the wrench and shove it down into your hitch. This is harder to do with fatter lines.

And to add to the topic of lines seeming fatter then they are, many lines fatten up over time, especially ones that tend to milk.

But back to what I was saying, imagine a different sized wrench that released easily on larger lines, one that would let you move unencumbered though a canopy when your weight isn't fully in it.

And I'm not a light climber by any means

I understand the frustration of people taking your post in another direction than intended, talking about ropes and hitches instead of the wrench itself. However the wrench works in conjunction with the ropes and hitches and that is where you can fine tune it. In the above post you mentioned that your ascent and descent was smooth, if you modify your wrench it may alter that performance.

My suggestion would be that if your currently happy with your rope and hitch to try a mod on your wrench. Worse case scenario the modified wrench fails at height and your hitch is still there to catch you. If you do try tweaking it, make sure to share the results as someone else may benefit from it as well.
 

TimBr

Well-Known Member
I could be wrong, but I'd suspect that you would just need the wrench to be a little wider. If that's all that's needed, some spacers and longer bolts would fix that. If you need a little more space between the pulley and pin, a machine shop should be able to mill the pulley slightly smaller.

I don't have the specs of the pulley, but there may be some replacement options available that might work. I seem to remember a pulley sheeve that slips onto a carabiner or shackle. Might be a good size?

Obviously if anything happened after alteration, singing tree could not be held responsible.

On the other hand, it really isn't that hard to build your own wrench from scratch, if you wanted to. It just wouldn't look as good, at least mine doesn't. :)
I made my own. This is working great on fat Tachyon Ash which is 13mm. Used a Distel or a Knut under it til I got the ZigZag; worked good like that too. I have a Bone now but still like this setup sometimes.View attachment 49978
So with that being said, I'm not interested in workarounds for using a sub 13mm rope. I'm moreso interested to hear if other people feel the same way, and if there's anything coming down the pipes that I'd be excited about, like an up-sized wrench.

I think Kevin Bingham has shared previously the tools/software/resources he has had success with in creating the wrench. Anybody want to make one?
I've heard of no news of something coming down the pipes to address this issue, but threads like this do identify a possible need, and might get the ball rolling in that direction.

As to the 2nd paragraph of your quoted post, I do not, but maybe @Burrapeg could make up a second one of the type he made for himself, and sell it to you, but only with the blessings of @treebing, since he owns the rights to the Rope Wrench patent, I believe. Or maybe Kevin can suggest a newer, larger size be made by ISC. I'd be surprised if they'd do it, though, because of the likely small demand for it. My gut impression is that Kevin might not mind a guy making his own custom version of a Rope Wrench, but to have a third party make it for you and sell it to you would be crossing a line.

I'd look hard at @Burrapeg's photo and try to make one of my own, if I were you. Anything else will take too long, or be illegal, in my humble opinion.

Tim
 
Last edited:

treebing

Well-Known Member
what rope specifically are you trying to use? a 16 strand? the coarse nature of these ropes makes then drag a bit. I have had good luck running 13mm km3 as well as vortex. I like the fatter ropes for removals and smaller trees where I don't have lots of redirects. the wrench should accommodate 13mm with some adjustments to the hitch. you can get away with less twists and wraps with the thicker line and still have a reliable hitch.
 

Burrapeg

Well-Known Member
. . . to have a third party make it for you and sell it to you would be crossing a line.

I'd look hard at @Burrapeg's photo and try to make one of my own, if I were you. Anything else will take too long, or be illegal, in my humble opinion. . .
I don't think I would want to make a custom RW for anyone else; there is a fine legal line between doing one for your own use and making one for another, when it involves a patented commercial product. Also there is the liability issue if it somehow failed for you. But really it is not a bad job to cobble them together yourself to experiment. Here is another I made (for smaller rope) that is mid-line attachable. Uses a quick release pin from MSC Supply Co. This took me less than two hours to make using only a woodworking bandsaw with a fine tooth blade, small drill press, and a file. In a pinch, it can be done with hand hacksaw and hand or cordless drill motor. Aluminium in various sizes is sold at many hardware stores. There are a number of possibilities for the bollards. Stacks of stainless washers the same size will let you adjust the width, and if you can find them in several diameters then you can adjust this too until you get it dialed in, whereupon you replace the washer stacks with bollards the same size. Contoured bollards make a real difference too. I made my wrenches to slide very easily, too easily in fact to engage reliably, so that is the reason for the short bungee to pull them up and ensure engagment. I have to keep an eye on these things when climbing on them in case the bungee broke, etc. but of course one needs to keep an eye on the situation anyway to tend a hitch, whatever. All this was solved for me when I saved up for one of Gordon's (Surveyor) Adjustable Bones. Get one of those and you can adjust it exactly for your own rope and weight, and the things work reliably and trouble free after that whether ascending, descending, limb walking, anything.blob.jpg
 
Top