quick splicing question

Discussion in 'The Splice Rack' started by Jehinten, Sep 9, 2017.

  1. Jehinten

    Jehinten Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    Evansville
    So not long ago I did my first 1/2 inch stable braid splice. The first job out it got a knick in the rope and since then I've just been tying knots instead of utilizing the splice. This particular rope has only been used in about 4 trees, would it qualify for the modified splice for used rope or the standard splice for new rope? Samson list instructions for both on their website that I will be following.

    On that topic is the modified splice inferior in any way? If not then why not always use it? (Last two questions are just curiosity)

    Thanks,
    Justin
     
  2. NE Tree

    NE Tree Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Messages:
    883
    Location:
    fremont, Ne
    I'm not sure about the modified splice integrity. I Do know that stable braid splices very easily and I think that with just a little use, you could still splice it with the class 1 db splice. I dont think you'll have much problem at all
     
    Jehinten likes this.
  3. Z'sTrees

    Z'sTrees Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2014
    Messages:
    379
    Location:
    NW NC
    I prefer the new rope instructions. It's just what I'm used to.
    The used rope instructions just tell you to do some of the tapers a bit different, iirc, the splice itself is the same.
    Stable braid is an easy splice, you can always wash it or soak it first to make it a little easier but it sounds relatively new.
     
    Jehinten likes this.
  4. JontreeHI

    JontreeHI Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,396
    Location:
    Portland, OR!
    Standard splice even on quite dirty climb line really isn't so bad. Can use KY or dish soap to help things move a little better, clean it beforehand like Z said. 4 trees worth of use, id call that a pretty dang new rope
    I've never seen the modified splice though.
     
    Jehinten likes this.
  5. Jehinten

    Jehinten Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    Evansville
    Thanks guys. Just wanted to make sure as this is my second double braid splice, so basically I know absolutely nothing about what im doing. ;-)
     
    TimBr, kiteflyingeek and JontreeHI like this.
  6. Brocky

    Brocky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    781
    Location:
    Michigan
    Interesting subject, I had forgotten about the modified db splice for used rope. A different way of tapering the cover seems to replace the need to bury the core only as far as the end of the eye, and not down through the cover next to itself. I wonder if they test to the same, or close to the same strength?
     
  7. Jehinten

    Jehinten Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    Evansville
    Well here it is. This splice is still time consuming for me (took over an hour) but I wasn't rushing it and had to reread instructions as I went. I thought I would try a tight eye on this one even though every rigging rope I see had a larger eye. This will just be for a carabiner attachment and I figured the tight eye would help keeping the correct orientation.
     

    Attached Files:

    Brocky and kiteflyingeek like this.
  8. kiteflyingeek

    kiteflyingeek Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2016
    Messages:
    60
    Location:
    Newburgh, IN
    Good to know that on our next job, it will be easier to add a biner to the rigging line :bananahappy:

    --andrew
     
    Jehinten likes this.
  9. Jehinten

    Jehinten Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    Evansville
    I have another question and do not feel it is worth a separate thread. Is there a chart available that shows what the shortest eye to eye would be for certain ropes and how much rope is needed to make them?

    My particular situation is that I would like to splice a ring and ring in 5/8 stable braid, this length of rope is 13 feet long. How long would it be once the splice is made on each end? I understand that the size of eye makes a difference, just need a general idea. Thanks in advance.
     
  10. jmcscrap

    jmcscrap Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    934
    Location:
    Woodbury, MN
    Fid length would be just a shade over 13 inches, add half of the rope used to make the eye, and maybe a couple inches for "shrinkage" when you run the splice home. 13 foot rope - 6" eye on each end - approx...... 10 feet overall length.
     
    TimBr and Jehinten like this.
  11. Brocky

    Brocky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2015
    Messages:
    781
    Location:
    Michigan
    The length of the tail, one side of the eye, and the contraction caused by the bury have to be subtracted from the total length.
    Fid length 13
    1/2 eye. 1
    Contraction 4 - 1/3 of fid
    -----
    18"x2= 36" About 10 ft end to end of the eyes?
    Edit: well,we got the same answer.
     
    Jehinten likes this.
  12. hatchetation

    hatchetation Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2016
    Messages:
    62
    Location:
    Seattle
    There is a rule of thumb for minimum size to leave between eye-to-eye splices, 5 fids? Can't remember where I heard it. Spiced hitch cords get a bit shorter - a 28" 8mm hitch cord is ~ 4 fids between the eyes. The biggest issue pushing the lower bound is having enough space to complete the second splice.

    For your ring and ring starting with 13 feet of rope, I'd guess it'll end up a bit over 10 feet long. Here's how I usually work the math for splices:

    splicing-length-example.jpg

    (Everything is in metric because I find it easier to deal with.)

    I always start with a diagram of what I'm making, with key measurements, calculate the fid length. (21x the rope diameter), and work it out from there.

    Next step is figuring out the eye size, the distance between 'R' and 'X'. I like getting the math done ahead of everything else. In the example I'm using 80mm (~ 3 1/8") for the eye circumference, would produce a loose eye.

    For an eye-to-eye, the final length ("L") between the bearing surfaces is going to be the same as the rope, minus:
    • 2x the fid length, one for each end.
    • 1/2 of the eye circumference (E = R-X) on each end, because the rope is doubled up here. (This assumes the eye is flat, which it's not, but close enough.)
    So, the generic formula for an eye-to-eye splice is:

    Final Length = Rope Length - 2*fid - Eye size

    There's some additional length loss from the braid expanding during the bury, 5% or so.

    Edit: Triple-checked I guess. Wouldn't have expected so many nerds to work splice math over lunch...
     
    TimBr and Jehinten like this.
  13. Jehinten

    Jehinten Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2016
    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    Evansville
    I will definitely need to reread these last 3 respones a few times to figure the math out for myself in future situations, but I am grateful for your help.

    Stay tuned, there will be more questions in the future. ;-)
     
    TimBr likes this.

Share This Page