Question for Master's Judges...

#1
Question for Master\'s Judges...

Could anyone who has judged a Master's Climb tell me if you would disqualify a climber who, in haste, pulls out their rope guide at the end of the climb - without lowering it - so that it hits the deck hard?
 
#2
Re: Question for Master\'s Judges...

It in and of itself would not be a disqualification. It would , however be a reason to ding a contestant on points, depending on the severity of the action. I would say that if the gear was ripped out of the tree with no audible warning, that it would be worse than issuing a warning and then trying to keep the gear from hitting the deck in a harsh manner. If the contestant exhibited blatant disregard for their gear and those folks around him, at the head judges discretion, they could be DQ'ed. It's in the rules.
 
#3
Re: Question for Master\'s Judges...

Absolutely correct Prime ape,
This action would not warrant a DQ if an audible warning was called before.
Rule 8.5.1 is only inforced when working aloft.
Rule 8.4.5 could be used to DQ the climber if they did not call a warning at the head judges discretion.If a DQ was not given by the Head judge the climber could be given up to a 5 point deduction and 0 for safe gear retrieval on the score sheet.

Didj
 
#4
Re: Question for Master\'s Judges...

What happened was (not to me) the contestant was about to pull out their rope guide in a hurry without lowering it, although the all clear was called, but someone in the crowd yelled out not to - that they would be DQ'ed. So the climber stopped pulling and took the 20 penalty points instead. I just wondered if this advice was correct, and that it was better to take the penalty instead of risking a DQ.
 
#5
Re: Question for Master\'s Judges...

8.2.26 A contestant will be disqualified for dropping a piece of equipment while working aloft. When the contestant is working on the ground during the official timed period (i.e., setting or removing lines or equipment in the tree), equipment that hits the ground will not incur an automatic disqualification. Rather, these infractions shall be judged using the appropriate sections of the score sheet. Safe use of equipment such as throwbags and various friction-reducing devices should be rewarded. A contestant who removes equipment (i.e., throwbags, friction-reducing devices, ropes) from the tree in an uncontrolled or unsafe manner shall be penalized. It shall be up to the discretion of the judges whether the infractions were deemed accidental or intentional and penalties levied accordingly. An unsafe act may result in disqualification.

So long as a warning is called and all clear given The removal of gear from the tree without lowering does not warrant a DQ and the rules reflect this.

That said freefall of hardware from the tree is not best practice and will reduce bonus and cause deductions on the score sheet.Whether this would be more than the -20 for gear left in the tree or not would depend on the how much a judge marked you down and how big a deduction you recieved.

Didj
 

cerviarborist

Well-Known Member
#6
Re: Question for Master\'s Judges...

I guess there's a caveat in that scenario.. While your buds on the ground may be hollering support, if you aren't your own authority on rules.. you might follow good intentioned, but erroneous information and not get the highest score you could possibly achieve in a situation.
 

PUClimber

Active Member
#7
Re: Question for Master\'s Judges...

You're better off bombing that gear out and getting it down and not losing the 20 points than losing a few points for uncontrolled gear retrieval.
 
#9
Re: Question for Master\'s Judges...

The 2008 MSA comp a contestant used his access line to remove his false crotch.He didn't pull his access line to the false crotch, so when he pulled his line out the gear hit the ground with no controll....and no audible warning.......He won...head judge Tom Dunlap.
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
#11
Re: Question for Master\'s Judges...

And...should he have been DQ'd?

The rules about removing a FC have changed over the years.

How judges score an event is up to them. Pulling a FC and letting it take an uncontrolled drop may lead to point deductions. Unless the score sheets are viewed you'll never know how the action was scored.
 

PUClimber

Active Member
#12
Re: Question for Master\'s Judges...

When judging masters I look at that as uncontrolled gear retrieval and it's a point deduction for me. There's a section in score sheets about gear retrieval.
 
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