OK what is the real deal

John_Schultz

New Member
Okay, I have seen alot of information regarding the Quali Pro product but is there any testing that can be proven that it works? I am willing to save money if I am going to get the results that I get with Alamo or Arbortech. Also can you use this product for DED. I am always trying new products as long as I get the results that I require to make the customer happy and my bottom line "PROFIT" in line to make me happy. So what is the real deal anyone out there can give info regarding this I would appreciate it. I realize Tom that you will not be in favor of this product due to your bottom line but after the fiasco of the Evanston and Skokie bidding wars here in the Chicago areas for Arbortect injections all stemming from that talk about 1-2 years ago when you let it our what you charge the city of Minn. Our labor rates are much higher here than in Minn and well now everyone wants it for $10 in or less I am nore apt to say we do not do the applications if I can't make my margins on it. And tired of having to explain all the time why we are more expensive than the other guys. We still used 75 Gal last year of Arbortect but if I can save using another product I am all for it

John Schultz
Sunrise Tree Service
(847)256-8733
 

Tree_Wizard

New Member
If you go to the Qualipro web site they say Qualipro is the same as Banner Maxx. I would not use or recommend Banner Maxx for DED, nor do we use, anymore, or recommend Alamo for DED. Our experience with Alamo for DED has been 50%+ mortality while with Arbotect for DED over the course of the last 15 years is less than 0.5% mortality.
 

tnttree

Well-Known Member
In the beginning Alamo was labeled at 10 mils, arbortech in the beginning failed at 10 mils also. Your stats need to be clarified more. We have .58 mortality with propacanizole at 20 mils on over 2700 injections and our clients trees don't have that nasty Injection site injury. No offense, this is a story not told around the country/world
 

tnttree

Well-Known Member
SciVi is now putting on seminars up here in MN to teach homeowners how to inject their trees. Lord knows when there coming to your town. We can't make it on 10 bucks an inch either. Its been closer to $13 though for years.
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
If homeowners can do the treatment themselves it sounds like a great deal. In the end, there should be more trees living. More trees in the city means more trees to be cared for which means job security for future generations of arbos. Besides all of the other benefits of having trees in the city.

Last week I went to Baltimore for the Z133 meeting. Then I spent the last few days being a tourist in Baltimore, DC and Annapolis with my folks. It sure is nice to see many large elms still standing. Reminds me of home.
 

tnttree

Well-Known Member
I salute the notion, but Tommmmm one of the reasons That limits elm protection injections is arbortech is about a $1000 dollars a gallon, if the new "knock-off propiconizoles" prove to be a valid alamo replacement and more arborists understand it does work for DED the price could be as low as $60 a gallon. At least teach homeowners all treatment options.
 

roxy

Active Member
I strongly believe putting EPA registered hazardous chemicals in the hands of Joe Homeowner is a really bad idea.
"For the good of teh trees..." Come on. I love trees, and I love big curly elms. And I want to keep educating clients and I want to keep making my living in the profession of arboriculture.
How long does it take to learn how to properly apply the injection...not too many trees, if one's bright and willing to endure the regular troubleshooting...but, how many times does Joe Homeowner get to try? One time. And when/if it doesn't work? Or they have leftover Arbotect in the garage and the kids use it for their Kool-Aid container? I can't believe we as tree care professionals are even considering this...
What is your professional knowlege worth? What do you think we pay the dentist for? Not scraping some gunk off your teeth every six months - you pay for all the knowledge and experience behind that dentist, in case there's something you need a professional for...
Would we say, "Let's arm the homeowner with a long bar and give them just enough information so they *should* be able to fell that cottonwood between those two houses."

It's not just job security; it's common sense.
 

TProsser

New Member
helping homeowners treat their trees

At first we were against the idea when the Alliance for Sustainability approached us as we did not want a bunch of amateurs treating trees incorrectly and having them die. But they have agreed that each neighborhood must have a block captain and that person must go through an 8 hour training program that we are putting on. (Same as we train our crews)

Many people cannot afford the $500 it costs to treat a tree

This certified person is than the contact point for other neighbors and the person who buys the materials.

We beleive that we are being good citizens and neighbors by sharing our technology and that it will be good for our reputation. Also - many of the neighbors who do not want to do their own trees will hire us.

Its a win win
 

tnttree

Well-Known Member
Re: helping homeowners treat their trees

Tom all the stats about Alamo failing miserably around the country (pretty negative), What was the dosage rate they were using?
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
[ QUOTE ]
I strongly believe putting EPA registered hazardous chemicals in the hands of Joe Homeowner is a really bad idea.

*I didn't know that Arbotect was an EPA controlled chemical. What special training is required to purchase it from a vendor?

... how many times does Joe Homeowner get to try? One time. And when/if it doesn't work?

*Consumers get to do a lot of other things with much deadly consequences. How many shade tree mechanics are out there doing their own brake jobs?

Or they have leftover Arbotect in the garage and the kids use it for their Kool-Aid container?

*That is a scary thought. Too many kids find leftovers in plastic pop bottles with deadly consequences.

What is your professional knowlege worth?

*I've had clients who needed some coaching to do their own pruning and I 've taught them. the trees were all ground pruning. Was this comiting economic suicide? Nope, they rarely did it a second time. And I included the cost of my instructions in the off-ground pruning.

What do you think we pay the dentist for? Not scraping some gunk off your teeth every six months - you pay for all the knowledge and experience behind that dentist, in case there's something you need a professional for...

*No, but I wouldn't pay the dentist to brush my teeth since I'm capable of doing that.

Would we say, "Let's arm the homeowner with a long bar and give them just enough information so they *should* be able to fell that cottonwood between those two houses."

*People can already do that. Is is smart? Most times it isn't.

It's not just job security; it's common sense.

*That could be true but I've hired professional weldors to do work before. In the end I've paid for worse looking welds than I can make. I sure was disappointed.


[/ QUOTE ]-=hy


I admit that I don't know all of the ins and outs of teaching homeowners to do their own DED treatments. On the surface it does seem like a good idea.
 

TProsser

New Member
Helping neighborhoods protect their elms

I think you are right - there are some pitfalls. But as we have found with working with companies all over the country - they are just as vulnerable. These homeowners have as much experience and intellegence as a hired hand at ABC Tree care.

I addition they are treating their own tree, which I beleive will make them more attentive and caring. Elm injection is not rocket science by any means - very simple to do.

We have gotten a large response and expect a lot of neighborhoods to show up. We are providing discounted equipment and chemical to help them.

What good is a company if it does not serve the community? These things always come back ten fold. But these things don't seem to work when done for those reasons. We truly made the decision to help this cause because we know we are in the best position to do so, and thought it the right thing to do as a way for us to give back to the community that our company has been supported by.
 

Chum

New Member
Re: Helping neighborhoods protect their elms

Life in America isn't what we're used to from the past - that is we're busy, involved, upwardly mobile (or at least mobile), and concentrated.

The average family moves every 2.2 years. This demographic indicator wasn't only just abnormal 40-50-or 100 years ago, it didn't happen.

One of the best things from the oak wilt epidemic (good always comes from bad, if one looks for it) is that neighborhoods organized. In metro Texas, associations have formulated around the issue, then on to bar-b-ques or family fundraisers or simple 'get to know you' picnics. In the past the only issue of concern and organizational potential was Crime Watch.

In as much as ad-hoc committees are formed regarding security, child safety, speed bumps and tax relief, oak wilt had neighborhoods organize. I'[ve spoken to more than a few gatherings regarding the disease and what can be done. I don't see where a cooperative local organization can select and appoint a "security person" or "recycle chairperson" can't go the distance and find a willing "tree loss manager" or committee to take the lead for identifying, mapping, or information clearinghouse regarding treatment options, cost-share programs, etc. in relation to a tree-loss epidemic. Austin has experienced organization around the issue unlike any other AMerican city I'm familiar with. I think this can translate into other areas and incorporate the concerns Tom and Tom share...a "community" policing policy regarding information sharing. God knows it's functional for "terror watch" insecurities, it should work well for oak wilt, DED, and other rapidly rising tree threats. For homeowners the fear of losses of property values in this "demographic age" might just surpass the want and need of asthetic values regarding their large priceless trees. If one can be taught the system of carefully performed treatment protocols, the knowledge can be effectively demonstrated onward.

JMTCW....

Reed
 
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