New Climber Seeking advice (Video inside!)

Discussion in 'Climber's Talk' started by Stephen.G.FIddes, May 22, 2017.

  1. Stephen.G.FIddes

    Stephen.G.FIddes Member

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    To be honest, No. Not one bit. And that's what scared the $#!t out of me when I saw it in the video the first time. As I said previously, I had untangled the rigging and lifeline as soon as I swung over to the dead portion, and assumed from there I was good. Didn't consider any subsequent movements I made that might have twisted the two, especially being so close together. That is one thing that I will forever consider a "cheap" lesson learned, and probably never make that mistake again. I know what could have happened if I were rigging heavier chunks...
     
  2. BuckmasterTreeService

    BuckmasterTreeService Member

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    I have a laundry list of advice that I think will be helpful.

    1. Get a throw bag and use a basal tie to climb set to your TIP and isolate the branch you are going to use instead of using lanyards.

    2. When limbing up a tree, hang on your climb line and use your spikes and lanyard for positioning.

    3. Don't let your rpms drop too low or a tooth may bite and pull the saw. Use less pressure instead if you want to slow the cutting speed.

    4. Don't rig from your TIP. If it fails you will be screwed.

    5. When cutting around your climb line or lanyard put them against the trunk and cut about a foot away from the trunk, then readjust them away from the stub.

    6. Use your top handle saw until about 20". Lugging a large saw around a spar will wear you out faster than cutting both sides of a cut.

    6.5. Get a medium saw. Worn out climbers might rest a heavy saw on a lanyard for a second.

    7. Move around the spar and get a better angle on your face cuts.

    8. Shallower face cuts are easier to line up.

    9. Practice the humboldt cut.

    10. Use steady force to snap a snap cut after removing your saw. Shaking them can cause them to snap in the wrong direction.

    11. Keep posting videos. You are in the right place to learn.
     
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  3. Stephen.G.FIddes

    Stephen.G.FIddes Member

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    Thank you! Got a couple questions about a couple of your points. The rest I'll add to the stack in my head to keep in mind!

    I can see how that would have worked for the birch tree in my last post, but how would I do that in a fir tree? (Unless the implication is to go up the fir tree like I did the birch tree)


    I'm one who suffers from CLSA (Can't leave stuff alone), and did an exhaust mod, pulled the limiter caps, and re-tuned it a tad rich. The tuning is a bit of a learning process for me, so to keep from ruining the saw I tuned it rich. I've been slowly leaning it up, but I can't tell how the tune really behaves until I have it in wood for a while. Thus it's 4-stroking at a crazy low RPM in this video. After the tree was down, I was cutting up brush and played with the tune a bit, and got it cutting much better. We'll see how it does on the next tree. (this weekend methinks)

    In a tree like that birch, how would you have rigged it? There were at the very least 3 dead branches that absolutely had to be rigged to protect stuff below on the neighbors property.


    Assuming you're referencing the first fir takedown I posted. I plan on getting a medium saw. I had one, but sold it to get the bigger saw because I needed the bigger saw more, and I also wanted a different medium saw that was going to be easier to find parts for (my old medium saw was a CS-490 that I bought from Home Depot, didn't know much about chainsaws and specs except how to safely operate them, and that saw was going to be a pain to get parts and support for. Especially support because I got it at a box store.)

    Haven't decided on what saw yet, but I'm leaning towards the smallest one I can toss a 20" bar on, with a lightweight bar. I wish Echo made wrap handles for their smaller saws. I can see that being very helpful in a tree.


    So go shallow on the face cut, and longer on the back cut? I would see that being an issue in some situations. (on the birch, the big face cut I did had a sizable back lean to it... I cut until the log sat on my bar, and pushed it over.

    Humboldt I've had some issues with... I botched both of the final stem drop cuts at the stump. The first one was REALLY ugly. There's a reason I kept those pieces small enough to manage, big enough to practice with.


    And if it doesn't go, re-evaluate the cut, and cut more as needed...

    I plan on it! I film every tree so I can analyze the footage, and have others do the same if they so choose, and I am very grateful for the help!
     
  4. southsoundtree

    southsoundtree Well-Known Member

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    Top cut on Birch with a handsaw will likely peel them down to vertical, then cut free and toss/ drop.
     
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  5. BuckmasterTreeService

    BuckmasterTreeService Member

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    1. Use a big shot or apta to shoot a throw line all the way over the tree. Pull your climbing line over and tie one end to the tree with a running bowline. Bounce on the other end with your ground guy until you break the small branches and your climb line is sturdy enough to hold you. Tie into your line as a safety line instead of a climb line until you get to the top and make sure it is really solid.

    4. At about 3.30 you removed a largish limb that looked high enough to be used as a rigging point. I would have left a stub and rigged the other stem off it. It was large enough to hold the weight and small enough that if overloaded it would tear out without causing your tip to fail. Or you could have rigged the other stem off itself.

    6. My medium saw is a cs-400 with an 18" bar. It can cut slower than I would like at times but it is light and allows me to cut a 3' spar with less effort than a 5occ saw. I rarely need anything bigger until I get to the ground.

    7-10. Use a tag line so your ground guy can pull them over and bring some wedges with you.
     
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  6. Stephen.G.FIddes

    Stephen.G.FIddes Member

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    Thank you!

    The CS-400 18" is actually one I was looking at today when I picked up a Protos. I'll probably pick it up after a few more jobs.

    A proper Rigging line and block is next. Debating on 5/8 or 3/4" line. I have a couple firs coming up that will have to be rigged down because of the lean over the neighbors yard.
     
  7. hseII

    hseII Active Member

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    I've got 1/2" Stable Braid & 5/8" Stable Braid.

    I've not necessarily needed the 3/4" yet, but I will.
     
  8. southsoundtree

    southsoundtree Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, if you think you need 3/4", you're over your head, Imo. I rarely break out 5/8".



    You might try a near vertical speed line for chunks.
     
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  9. Stephen.G.FIddes

    Stephen.G.FIddes Member

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    It's not that I think I NEED 3/4" yet (I'm using a 10mm static line I got new in package on craigslist for $30 right now...) but I follow the line of thought of "There's no such thing as overkill, It's just doing the job really well"

    That said, If you rarely break out 5/8", That's what I'll go for first. Will be big enough to handle anything I have the balls to rig, and lighter/ cheaper than 3/4" to haul up the tree. I'll get 1/2 inch down the road after a couple other small items on my list.

    That near vertical speedline idea actually crossed my mind for a (Different than a couple posts above) very heavy (almost 45*) 35 ft tall leaner I have coming up with almost no drop zone, so I want ZERO bounce to the side, and small chunks.
     
  10. southsoundtree

    southsoundtree Well-Known Member

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    9/16 double braid is strong, too.

    How big of pieces do you plan to negative rig, with how much rope in the system? Snub-off or let-run?




    Energy absorbing stretch goes a long way. Polydyne, True Blue, Tree-master (listed decreasing in strength).


     
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  11. Stephen.G.FIddes

    Stephen.G.FIddes Member

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    To be honest, Not huge pieces at this point. 5 ft max, except the tops. Those will likely be closer to 7-10 ft.

    Mostly, let run for a few feet, then lower down as needed (I have a Port-a-wrap and friction rings depending on the weight). I'll probably catch and hold for the first few until I learn how the port-a-wrap handles with various weights.

    Line in the system: that will be situation dependent. Spar plus 15-20 feet at the cut in most cases I'm guessing.

    I don't remember off the top of my head what my local shop sells. I was just there the other day too...


    EDIT: WOW that video!!!
     
  12. southsoundtree

    southsoundtree Well-Known Member

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    5' x what diameter?

    There is a green log weight chart by species in the TB old Articles. A 10' fir top is light enough to snap cut and throw, but means being in small wood. A 4" TIP in healthy Doug fir is accepted as reasonable, I think. Means a 20' top, probably. Lightweight.
     
  13. southsoundtree

    southsoundtree Well-Known Member

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    I bought 3/4 inch blocks and slings starting out. What a heavy waste!
     
  14. Stephen.G.FIddes

    Stephen.G.FIddes Member

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    5' by 20-25" maybe... Much beyond that and I'm getting past my bar length and likely cutting much smaller, and going around the trunk. Honestly, that would be one of those that I'll have to gauge it on the situation, as to what I'm comfortable with. Once I see something like that in person, if its close to a structure, I'd probably turn away at this very second. In the open, I'd most definitely take it on just to experiment. If I break a rope and there's nothing to hit, and the ground guy can be a safe distance away, why not try things.

    If you look at my first video at the start of the thread, I was slinging 7-10 ft by 10-18" logs into a sizable drop zone... I was struggling with those a bit. Albeit, a lot of that is cut technique and learning how to line up my cuts better...

    I'll look into those charts.
     
  15. CutHighnLetFly

    CutHighnLetFly Well-Known Member

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    Hey man, it's easy to over complicate things. I can't imagine ever saying "I need this gear cause this is the size of stuff on going to cut."
    I sit here on the toilet this morning after doing tree work awhile and God know what today's surprise is. And I know my collection of rigging gear is different from some people here, cause we're all different. But you, probably anyone who's posted, and I will all be able to get the job done. Albeit I'd be the fastest (just kidding, tree guy joke, we all think we're the best don't we??)
    You can't plan for em all, and there's no way in hell you can plan the size of every cut. Look for good deals on good gear to start, learn the style of work you'll adopt, and continue to morph your collection from there.

    I gotta say to, some laborers out here om cape cod drive me nuts. "10 drops on the plywood" or "8 drops on a brick" are two of the oldest gauges for when to leave work cuz of rain. Some people hate working with me cuz I always say someone out on the PNW is working in rain right now! Sack up
     
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  16. hseII

    hseII Active Member

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    Norwood Sawmills has a weight calculator app that is easy enough for my DA to operate.
     
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  17. Stephen.G.FIddes

    Stephen.G.FIddes Member

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    Yesterday I had my biggest job yet. 60-70 ft leaning alder with a (getting bad) decay spot 10 feet from
    The top, A broken 20 feet up, split, half dead and heavily storm damaged cedar with tons of suckers to fall, and a 30-40 ft Fir to fall. It was HOT too.

    I'll post the video up as soon as I get a chance to edit it down. It should include my chain getting stuck and coming off the bar in a 7 foot log that was being pulled off the alder spar as I was cutting, and the saw following it. Thankfully it didnt go crashing to its death, my saw-tie in didn't fail. I'm curious to analyze that footage and see what went wrong.

    Also, I think my clutch may be toast from pushing too hard and the chain biting. It seems to bite and hold a lot more often than it should. Sharp chain, haven't touched the rakers yet and the wood chips look good. Not sure why it bites so often tho. Without seeing the video, can anyone tell me for sure the symptoms of a clutch going out vs other misc maintenance issues I might be missing? I might still be a touch rich on the mixture too.
     
  18. southsoundtree

    southsoundtree Well-Known Member

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    Clutches are pretty durable. They get grabby sometimes.

    Your saw lanyard holding is a Fail in that you could get way fuct up if that 7' log holds on, too. That's why there are break-away lanyards. Sounds like another close call, honestly.

    I think you said early on about not taking on too much, too soon...

    Why pull leaning logs?


    Louie was a guy I knew who was overconfident in his abilities in rock climbing. Hang thought about that guy in years, and he has a new alliterative nickname...Limping Louie.
    I know No Hands Stan
    One Eye Guy
    One Eye Bob
    Two other limpers
    Almost Eaten Andy (just came up with that nickname... Guy was helping the brush into the BC1000, I very clearly signaled to him not to use his foot. He could only use one hand after the one-handing incident where he almost cut off his thumb. Seems like the the guys yelling at him to push the limb with one hand and cut with the other should have told him an MS250 is especially not for rookie bucket ops to one hand.

    Watch your ass.
    Fwiw
     
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  19. Stephen.G.FIddes

    Stephen.G.FIddes Member

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    I have the lanyard clipped to a breakaway spot on my harness. It didn't grab that hard thankfully. I'll have to inspect everything to see what exactly happened and if any threads popped.

    Spar was leaning towards a house, with a shed next to it, so not much fall zone in direction of lean. So we pulled the logs against the lean to prevent any damage. Worked flawlessly except for that one that grabbed my saw chain.
     
  20. southsoundtree

    southsoundtree Well-Known Member

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    As far as I know, the only reason saws are grabbed are wrong cutting, or too much pull, like a heavy leaner ripping a root/ back strap.


    I'm not familiar with any manufacturer's breakaway spots.

    How many pounds does you system take to deploy. Buckingham's are designed and tested around 200 pounds, IIRC.

    A lanyard not breaking away can have terrible consequences, breaking a climber.
     
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