"Murdering Trees"...(Kevin Bingham)

moss

Well-Known Member
#41
Ok here's the thing, if you climb a really cool tree in the woods with no agenda (not pruning, not removing) you actually form a relationship with the tree. It's like having a favorite spot along a brook, maybe a little waterfall with mossy rocks. Same thing with a tree. It's not ignorant tree hugging, it's simply respecting something from getting to know all its awesomeness. It doesn't mean you feel guilty taking a perfectly good tree down, it means you know what you're doing, own it, and do it with respect. It's a change of perspective and not hiding from the fact that you might be killing a magnificent living thing. It's not about guilt, or it shouldn't be.
-AJ
 

RopeShield

Well-Known Member
#42
TReesponsibilities
  1. to property owner
  2. To environment
  3. To the tree
  4. To you
No tree evere has to be gone. Feature, art, furniture, habitat etc.
I just have a problem with the unreasonable. And will walk away in that situation. If the genuinely listen and understand and still decide to remove or do a drastic crown redn than I will grudgingly abide.
 

frashdog

Well-Known Member
#43
Ok here's the thing, if you climb a really cool tree in the woods with no agenda (not pruning, not removing) you actually form a relationship with the tree. It's like having a favorite spot along a brook, maybe a little waterfall with mossy rocks. Same thing with a tree. It's not ignorant tree hugging, it's simply respecting something from getting to know all its awesomeness. It doesn't mean you feel guilty taking a perfectly good tree down, it means you know what you're doing, own it, and do it with respect. It's a change of perspective and not hiding from the fact that you might be killing a magnificent living thing. It's not about guilt, or it shouldn't be.
-AJ
What about a pet tree?

I bet people who eat dogs don't feel guilty?
 

frashdog

Well-Known Member
#45
TReesponsibilities
  1. to property owner
  2. To environment
  3. To the tree
  4. To you
No tree evere has to be gone. Feature, art, furniture, habitat etc.
I just have a problem with the unreasonable. And will walk away in that situation. If the genuinely listen and understand and still decide to remove or do a drastic crown redn than I will grudgingly abide.
In a polite inquiry tone...
Did you just make those up, or are they from some where?

Imo if one takes on a job...
1. Safety first. (you)
2. Satisfy customer (them)
3. Provide high quality of service (trees and their environment)
 

treevet

Well-Known Member
#46
People will often keep their tree if you tell them that it is unusually large for it's variety or rare for the area or a very good specimen. For example I persuaded a client to keep an abnormally large Sour Wood because it was down right cool to see a specimen that size. Made him feel proud that he owned it.

When giving advice regarding tree removal I try to keep the person's best interest in mind. In five years is the tree going to out grow it's space or become a hazard to their living space? Will taking the tree down reduce their property value or increase it? Would taking the old tree down and planting a new one benefit everyone in the future or not? Some times removing a tree gives just enough sun light for under-story trees. If the client is going to sell their house soon, then it might be better for the new owner to decide a particular tree's fate.
I was on the local UFB Urban Forestry Board for years. We had an annual "Tree of the Year" and there were the top ten. Over the years there were so many concrete "tree of the year" markers some homeowners were doing gags where they would put the marker under a new skinny pathetic sapling. But the point or intention of ours was sustaining the key trees in the community and it would have to be difficult being a new homeowner or otherwise and having a "tree of the year" vaporized. Worked then and it works to this day.
 

treevet

Well-Known Member
#47
I don't care about box elders.
I'll top or hack the shit out of them all day long.
I'll feel less better about topping an overgrown ceder hedge.
Pretty much every box elder in the world has Verticillium wilt and is on a mission to die back and look as ugly as possible...but still barely hang in there to make the soft hearted retain them.
 

RopeShield

Well-Known Member
#48
Probably, something I read. I'll give Harrison credit. Asahi, SApporo, plum wine and saki talking. My safety isn't a factor until the line is in the tree and visually I see the deflection. Removal or prune for me based on an observable deflection. Sometimes during a wind storm or with human persuasion. Sometimes I will take the HOs account. I jus did 60% crown reduction of plane tree. It can b done and look reasonable. It's tough to do PIA but for feels better than complete removal
 

John_KAYS

Well-Known Member
#49
Sometimes I'm in the way but I can be moved rather than removed. Poor trees get to a point where you are either letting them stand tall or you are letting them fall, but a choice has to be made. In the end, if it was the right choice, you shouldn't feel guilty. If you don't agree that the tree should come down, but you know they are going to find someone to remove it anyway...so why not make some money - THEN you should feel guilty. But if you remove a tree because there is a good reason to do so, then you shouldn't feel guilty... But you can, like others have said, feel respect for the fallen.
We are a small enough company we have the privilege to really communicate with our clients to find what the best option for every individual would be...even the tree. We are not a removals only company, we would much prefer to prune and care for a tree than to cut it down. When we do removals it is because the trees need to come down for some reason or other...because in this economy people are not just paying to cut down trees for no particular reason. It's hard to be the judge, jury, and executioner... So all we can do is do our best with the evidence before us.
 

treevet

Well-Known Member
#50
In 08 we had a hurricane blow thru our town and with it came gypsy tree companies. ALL they do is solicit and provoke removals. After the storm they kept coming back for years and only this year are they few and far between. We retained more trees in town than any other company. But my image of their siege was in my mind like a group of starved lions that had a wildebeast on its back and were gorging on its innards when they scored a td.
 

Treezybreez

Well-Known Member
#51
Funny you mention letting a new home owner decide whether or not to remove trees. New homeowners consistently have trees cut down within a month or two of acquiring their property, many regret it later. I think it has to do with anxiety over the mortgage, financial pressures etc. Suddenly the trees appear to be looming threats, a proxy for everything that makes them feel vulnerable as a new home owner. I'd like to see a law that says a new homeowner may not murder (haha) trees on their property for 90 days unless any trees represent an actual hazard as determined by a qualified independent tree inspector. Would never fly of course.
-AJ
I think a lot of new home owners want to customize their yard the same way they paint the rooms in the house new colors ect. Some times the previous owners neglected the trees so a few removals are necessary. What I don't understand, are the folks who buy a house with a forest and turn it into the prairie. As far as a law preventing tree removal for the first 90 days, most home owners associations have even more strict rules than that.
 

treebing

Well-Known Member
#52
In the past, I worked for a few companies and there was a lot of tree murdering going on. My boss would never question a removal... just give a price and go. I think he woikd actually encourage removals. He also paid me very well. Hired gun. Since I have been on my own for the past 9 years, that has happened much less. Some trees have to go. But I have been killed trees that I would much rather have let stand, I removed because of eonomic as well as customer relation reasons, the customer always right syndrome. A few of the trees that I have murdered have really stuck with me while the money is gone, the world a worse place. I think it's great that you have planted more than you have cut down. I need to organize amd streamljne our tree planting operation a bit better.
 
Last edited:

treevet

Well-Known Member
#53
We do planting in early spring pre foliage and after leaf drop when usually a little slow down. I accumulate a list of plantings all year long for those 2 periods. We even plant 6" plus caliper/dia trees with our crane digging the hole with our big stump grinder. Good profit in that niche. A nursery we deal with always has some big trees in inventory.

Sometimes you have to evolve into the non murdering tree company. More Comfortable financial situations are sometimes the impetus. As in all life...some do not evolve. People are often surprisingly naive, even well educated and wealthy people, and are easily swayed by the self proclaimed "tree experts". We had a company blow thru here a few years back that went door to door telling people their trees had eab and they HAD to remove them, most of them not even ash trees. Police stated this was a CIVIL matter and could not intervene.

The "non evolved" tree company also will often deadwood and cut back dying eab infested ash trees for lack of knowing about eab (duh) or what an ash tree is or just plain crookedness...when they can't score the td I guess.

I used to be on the now defunct Austrailian tree forum and in their cities you had to obtain permission to remove ANY tree. Our govt. is heading in that direction but not quite there yet I guess.
 
Last edited:

The_Archdruid

Well-Known Member
#54
This thread has a certain spiraling sense of goofiness about it, but I understand we're onto a sensitive subject here. Few people are aware of the antecedents, the original sin of murder itself. There are biblical scholars who believe that Cain started his killing spree by chopping down the apple tree which had vexed his family for so long. Abel, a protohippie pacifist and possible Master Gardener, got in the way and also had to be destroyed. That's where we get the quote about the triumph-of-evil-and-good-men-doing-nothing gibberish that was improperly credited to Edmund Burke but was actually muttered by Cain Adamson on that bleak day so long ago.
 

guymayor

Well-Known Member
#55
Not sure I have ever seen an uncorrectable codom. Rarely if ever.

The oak in the pic was way overdue on pruning--no one sold care after the first limb failure?


Pruning is always an option; owner decides. the red lines for potential pruning cuts came thru black in the pic; sorrry.

Extraordinary species bias here: boxelder valuable in zone 4, and many good ones in zone 7.

I might be back at the shingle oak next month; hey vet maybe we can have a sarsaparilla or something. ds oak.jpg
 
Last edited:
#56
In the past, I worked for a few companies and there was a lot of tree murdering going on. My boss would never question a removal... just give a price and go. I think he woikd actually encourage removals. He also paid me very well. Hired gun. Since I have been on my own for the past 9 years, that has happened much less. Some trees have to go. But I have been killed trees that I would much rather have let stand, I removed because of eonomic as well as customer relation reasons, the customer always right syndrome. A few of the trees that I have murdered have really stuck with me while the money is gone, the world a worse place. I think it's great that you have planted more than you have cut down. I need to organize amd streamljne our tree planting operation a bit better.
This is where I'm at right now and I totally feel like an assassin some days. Some weeks are all pruning and cleaning up storm damage, and some are clearing a stand of pines with scale (bring it!) but a few consecutive days of clearing magnificent eucs or a large banksia or something to make way for an ugly townhouse does get to you for sure. We joke about it in the truck but it brings you down, particularly when you're the climber - the last guy to ever climb it bears the worst of it imho, because he gets more intimate with that tree than the lucky ones running ropes and dragging. The money involved is what makes this a conscience thing, if we were to talk the customer down into only pruning and management will we be paid less today? There is an inherent conflict of interest, especially if the boss does not entirely share your values.
 
Last edited:

treevet

Well-Known Member
#58
Not sure I have ever seen an uncorrectable codom. Rarely if ever.

The oak in the pic was way overdue on pruning--no one sold care after the first limb failure?


Pruning is always an option; owner decides. the red lines for potential pruning cuts came thru black in the pic; sorrry.

Extraordinary species bias here: boxelder valuable in zone 4, and many good ones in zone 7.

I might be back at the shingle oak next month; hey vet maybe we can have a sarsaparilla or something. View attachment 34202
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is so much here....never seen an uncorrectable codom? (I cannot imagine any other arb saying that, I could go into detail but not worth the energy expended)

The oak in the pict was way overdue on pruning? (yeah, probably like 20 years).

Pruning is ALWAYS an option? (no it isn't)

RED LINES for potential pruning cuts...(In a perfect world your magic marker on photograph pruning could correct all problems. But this is not Narnia.)

Boxelder valuable? (I have seen a few nice specimens...likely in the area of 2% over all my years).

Guy...I am usually always here..in Cinci..We are going to Scottsdale for Christmas, but like I have said, would be glad to see you anytime and dinner on me.
 

treevet

Well-Known Member
#59
Does anyone else think you are "murdering trees" by representing yourself to your client as someone that is
caring for their trees...or capable of correcting basic problems trees have such as elemental deficiencies, insect and or disease attack or abiotic issues....and you really cannot do anything but remove trees or remove deadwood (a "tree garbageman" in other words)?
 
Top