Mini vs GRCS

Windwalker · Jul 15, 2018

So I have a job coming up where a good size cherry tree twisted at the trunk and blew over into an adjacent oak. It is caught buy one of the large oaks limbs and extends a good 30' above the limb. Its a fairly tall lanky woods tree, not a lot of branches. It is leaning over a garage. There is also a large oak opposite the way its leaning and about 10' away from the still attached stump, looks pretty simple to pull it back up straight using the oak and then hang it from the oak and cut as I lower. Problem is its a bigger task than my 1/2' ropes and maasdam puller are up to.

I'm going to purchase two 5/8 rigging lines, one for lifting/lowering and another to set a block in a crotch in the oak as a rigging point. I know doing it this way will obtain a good load on the crotch but I'm sure its up to the task.

I also need to up grade the maasdam rope puller which has a 1500# limit. Considering the GRCS, has great reviews and seems like one of those things that once you get over the sticker shock you'll be wondering how you got along without it. Kinda heavy and looks awkward to mount by yourself. Then I remember seeing that the Branch Manager grapple has a bollard on it. My Vermeer grapple does not, but there is a sturdy tie down point on the front of the machine that I could attch a porty. Could use the mini for pulling then the porty to lower. Would save me about $3k to use the mini.

I'm sure some of you are doing it this way, just looking for feedback, maybe by someone that has used both methods.

Thanks, Mike

Jehinten · Jul 15, 2018

Windwalker said:

I just bought a mini and have not got the branch manager yet. For right now I am using the anchor point and a 48" loop to mount a porta wrap only for pulling over a lead and speedline. If I'm doing lowering I will still mount the porta wrap to the tree. There is a cheaper ratcheting bollard that I think I will be buying in the future. Use the mini to pull the tail through the bollard, that way if anything takes a shockload, it would be the bollard and not the mini and grapple.

Jehinten · Jul 15, 2018

http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/products.php?mi=17081&itemnum=27335

Here's the bollard I'm thinking would work well with a mini. Hobbs and GRCS would also work, but at a much higher price point.

TCtreeswinger · Jul 15, 2018

Dont forget about the stein option

Jehinten · Jul 15, 2018

I like the Stein bollard and have considered ordering one. But for the technique I was describing of pulling through a bollard that's attached to the tree, I would think that a ratcheting bollard would be best.

TCtreeswinger · Jul 15, 2018

You will be limited in pulling power pulling through a bollard i would think. Youd be better off just redirecting at base and using mini with porty. At least thats what ive discovered but ive never used a grcs or similar device.

theatertech87 · Jul 15, 2018

I'm a big fan of the grcs for applications like this. You have very fine control over the tension on the ropes and it's more "tactile" than using a machine to pull (i.e. you can hear and feel the tree respond to what you're doing)

If you're looking for more lifting power than what the grcs will do by itself, a couple blocks done up as a 3-1 will really get the job done

Windwalker · Jul 15, 2018

My plan with the mini is to put a redirect at the base of the tree, this will put the rigging forces vertical on the stem, rather than just pulling from the rigging point. I was going to anchor a porty to the mini, take a bunch of wraps and lock it off. Back up the mini to pull the tree vertical and slightly lift it off the ground, park the mini. Cut 4' off the trunk and lower via the porty, repeat this process until it gets close to cartwheeling and then tie off the butt and lower the top.

(I'm a big fan of the grcs for applications like this. You have very fine control over the tension on the ropes and it's more "tactile" than using a machine to pull (i.e. you can hear and feel the tree respond to what you're doing)

I hear what you are saying and totally agree. You lose feel for whats going on with a machine. That's why I always like my Maasdam pullers, if you aren't strong enough to crank the lever, there's something going on that needs attention. One nice thing with the mini, there is good slow speed control and I'd be facing the work and it would be easy to keep and eye on things. Probably better than a truck, but still get where you are coming from. Its just hard to justify a $3k took, for a $300 job.

Has anyone ever encountered a tree that the mini wouldn't pull or pulled the mini? Its only 3000#, a lot lighter than a truck. I guess if I was concerned with that I could put a 5:1 behind the mini anchored to another tree.

Yeah the wheels are spinning on this one, trying to think of all the worse case scenarios

evo · Jul 15, 2018

For heavy rigging opening up the angle by setting the redirect low on a anchor behind the spar does three things.
1 does a better job at loading the spar on a vertical axis
2 opens the rope angle which reduces load
3 acts as a guy further supporting a spar to remain vertical.
Careful if you plan on useing a live tree, as you surely will mess up the bark and cause damage. I’ve spent a great amount of effort digging out embedded rope out of bark and sapwood.

flushcut · Jul 16, 2018

Windwalker said:

So I have a job coming up where a good size cherry tree twisted at the trunk and blew over into an adjacent oak. It is caught buy one of the large oaks limbs and extends a good 30' above the limb. Its a fairly tall lanky woods tree, not a lot of branches. It is leaning over a garage. There is also a large oak opposite the way its leaning and about 10' away from the still attached stump, looks pretty simple to pull it back up straight using the oak and then hang it from the oak and cut as I lower. Problem is its a bigger task than my 1/2' ropes and maasdam puller are up to.

I'm going to purchase two 5/8 rigging lines, one for lifting/lowering and another to set a block in a crotch in the oak as a rigging point. I know doing it this way will obtain a good load on the crotch but I'm sure its up to the task.

I also need to up grade the maasdam rope puller which has a 1500# limit. Considering the GRCS, has great reviews and seems like one of those things that once you get over the sticker shock you'll be wondering how you got along without it. Kinda heavy and looks awkward to mount by yourself. Then I remember seeing that the Branch Manager grapple has a bollard on it. My Vermeer grapple does not, but there is a sturdy tie down point on the front of the machine that I could attch a porty. Could use the mini for pulling then the porty to lower. Would save me about $3k to use the mini.

I'm sure some of you are doing it this way, just looking for feedback, maybe by someone that has used both methods.

Thanks, Mike

Howdy I have use my Vermeer s800tx with a BMG to hang many trees and pull many trees. With proper line angles and dangles and redirects and guying and MA you can pull the Titanic from the deep. Bear in mind that you have about 3000lbs of tractive force before the track slide. If I am reading the situation right you should be good to go.

Stephen Moore · Jul 16, 2018

I like the versatility of the mini, you could easily place a 3:1 in the system if the mini didn't have the weight to pull your load. The GRCS is probably the better choice though because of the level of control and there is no need to re direct with it, though you could? The issue with machines is the possibility of operator control errors and potentially the machine acting up or shutting down during a critical operation... Yes I know it's unlikely, but the operator error ( jerky or wrong way) for instance, is a real issue some times. As well, you may need a lot of maneuvering room to pull with a machine which you don't need with the GRCS. Just my 2 cents for what it's worth lol

colb · Jul 16, 2018

Windwalker said:

So I have a job coming up where a good size cherry tree twisted at the trunk and blew over into an adjacent oak. It is caught buy one of the large oaks limbs and extends a good 30' above the limb. Its a fairly tall lanky woods tree, not a lot of branches. It is leaning over a garage. There is also a large oak opposite the way its leaning and about 10' away from the still attached stump, looks pretty simple to pull it back up straight using the oak and then hang it from the oak and cut as I lower. Problem is its a bigger task than my 1/2' ropes and maasdam puller are up to.

I'm going to purchase two 5/8 rigging lines, one for lifting/lowering and another to set a block in a crotch in the oak as a rigging point. I know doing it this way will obtain a good load on the crotch but I'm sure its up to the task.

I also need to up grade the maasdam rope puller which has a 1500# limit. Considering the GRCS, has great reviews and seems like one of those things that once you get over the sticker shock you'll be wondering how you got along without it. Kinda heavy and looks awkward to mount by yourself. Then I remember seeing that the Branch Manager grapple has a bollard on it. My Vermeer grapple does not, but there is a sturdy tie down point on the front of the machine that I could attch a porty. Could use the mini for pulling then the porty to lower. Would save me about $3k to use the mini.

I'm sure some of you are doing it this way, just looking for feedback, maybe by someone that has used both methods.

Thanks, Mike

I do both ways - mini and grcs. Mini is for speed (no setup, quicker pull), safety (no tangles on the bollard) and convenience. Grcs is for more certainty of having an unmovable anchor when the wood is bigger. I also use both together for bigger forces, but it's a little complicated. Most of the time, I do not use the grcs.

Stephen Moore · Jul 16, 2018

My 5 ton is the go too heavy hitter! I pull some big sticks over with that truck!

Stephen Moore · Jul 16, 2018

colb said:

Forgive me for asking but what is the image of in your avatar?

Stephen Moore · Jul 16, 2018

If I didn't know better it looks like nails that got hit with a saw? but whats the horizontal shiny bit?

colb · Jul 16, 2018

Stephen Moore said:

Some abstract art I was making at the job site, lol.

colb · Jul 16, 2018

Stephen Moore said:

It must have been aluminum. Saw went right through it. Never noticed a thing until I went to load my rounds...

Stephen Moore · Jul 16, 2018

no a chainsaw can buzz right through mild steel. Hence the wire core thing about the wire not being there for safety.
I would have split that out just out of curiousity?

theatertech87 · Jul 16, 2018

Stephen Moore said:

Looks like a wire staple to me...

Also if you use the grcs, you can lift the tree, chunk off the bottom, then use the mini to grab the butt and pull it out while you lower and lay the whole tree down in one shot (assuming it's appropriately sized)