Marketing your grapple saw

Samuel Henke

New Member
To reinforce a few things already mentioned and encourage others I'll share my recent experience. I've had brief interactions with Knuckleboom trader Todd Brady, the folks at Tiffin, and some other large crane dealers and manufacturers. Todd was very helpful and is really dialed in to the k-boom community. He and I had some good conversation regarding the technology and marriage of the grapple saw a long time ago. He's a good guy. The folks at Tiffin were also helpful and obviously at the forefront of these matters. I spoke to other crane builders closer to us that had no idea of the concept but assured me that they could create a great package. I'm sure they could have. However, after enjoying time and conversation with several tree-mek owners (I'm greatful for Rick Yoos, Glenn Gerasimek, Doug Doll, Nichols tree, etc..) We had the fortune to meet Rick Cooney at Westminster Hydraulics. He is currently building a unit for us. With nothing but respect to the other dealers mentioned, Westminster's passion for the craft and similar ideals were undeniably the reason we wanted them to build our unit. After walking us through the initial stages of the build, I now realize that you can't let anyone tackle this project. It's become obvious that there are some small nuances and details that will easily create tens of thousands of dollars of difference of profitability over the life of the unit. Westminster wants to seek out system flaws and turn them into opportunites. They're making strides with this technology. Big time. The tree-mek community has been wildly helpful to me and I hope to help others as I've been helped. We'll all enjoy the benefits of the folks who have done things the right way and taken some risks.
 

Gerasimek

Active Member
To reinforce a few things already mentioned and encourage others I'll share my recent experience. I've had brief interactions with Knuckleboom trader Todd Brady, the folks at Tiffin, and some other large crane dealers and manufacturers. Todd was very helpful and is really dialed in to the k-boom community. He and I had some good conversation regarding the technology and marriage of the grapple saw a long time ago. He's a good guy. The folks at Tiffin were also helpful and obviously at the forefront of these matters. I spoke to other crane builders closer to us that had no idea of the concept but assured me that they could create a great package. I'm sure they could have. However, after enjoying time and conversation with several tree-mek owners (I'm greatful for Rick Yoos, Glenn Gerasimek, Doug Doll, Nichols tree, etc..) We had the fortune to meet Rick Cooney at Westminster Hydraulics. He is currently building a unit for us. With nothing but respect to the other dealers mentioned, Westminster's passion for the craft and similar ideals were undeniably the reason we wanted them to build our unit. After walking us through the initial stages of the build, I now realize that you can't let anyone tackle this project. It's become obvious that there are some small nuances and details that will easily create tens of thousands of dollars of difference of profitability over the life of the unit. Westminster wants to seek out system flaws and turn them into opportunites. They're making strides with this technology. Big time. The tree-mek community has been wildly helpful to me and I hope to help others as I've been helped. We'll all enjoy the benefits of the folks who have done things the right way and taken some risks.
Well said. You use your best judgement and choose the company you feel the most comfortable with. Its like choosing a wife...you're going to be spending a lot of time together!
I think we're off topic here, though. So lets get back to Gareth's question about how to market your new tree-mek/crane/grapplesaw.
 

limbcontrol

Active Member
Up until just a few years ago the only guy I knew that was using a palfinger crane in tree removal operations was David Driver ,Xman on here. David began the push to market and sell tree guys on Palfinger. David also encouraged Westminster to get involved in the tree care industry. At the time we built our kboom there was no one else to consult with that had real life experience with a palfinger and trees besides a guy working on commission to tell you how great they are, and that was in 2014. Fast forward to today...most Palfinger tree care companies have had their units for barely a year. We went with Effer because they were put to the test for many years by guys like Mike Poor, Eric Davis, Mark Moeske, etc. I'm sure palfinger makes a good crane, but private conversations on Instagram to keep issues hush amongst a group? Take a note from the above kboom pioneers and share amongst fellow tree brothers in an open public forum.
 
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Gerasimek

Active Member
Up until just a few years ago the only guy I knew that was using a palfinger crane in tree removal operations was David Driver ,Xman on here. David began the push to market and sell tree guys on Palfinger. David also encouraged Westminster to get involved in the tree care industry. At the time we built our kboom there was no one else to consult with that had real life experience with a palfinger and trees besides a guy working on commission to tell you how great they are, and that was in 2014. Fast forward to today...most Palfinger tree care companies have had their units for barely a year. We went with Effer because they were put to the test for many years by guys like Mike Poor, Eric Davis, Mark Moeske, etc. I'm sure palfinger makes a good crane, but private conversations on Instagram to keep issues hush amongst a group? Take a note from the above kboom pioneers and share amongst fellow tree brothers in an open public forum.
There is a public forum here started by Palfleet. This post just got off topic.
 

96coal449

Well-Known Member
Todd,
What kind of stock or inventory do you carry? Do you have a facility and support techs that travel to jobsites and do repairs and training or are you what your business name implies... a knuckleboom 'trader'? I guess I never really asked.
They have a web site. I was just checking it out.
 
Todd,
What kind of stock or inventory do you carry? Do you have a facility and support techs that travel to jobsites and do repairs and training or are you what your business name implies... a knuckleboom 'trader'? I guess I never really asked.
Glenn, here is a little bit about my company https://www.knuckleboomtrader.com/about-us/ but I think that was a rhetorical question as you know what I do. I've talked to several people now that have told me my name has come up in conversation with you and you've talked down on me "he's just a broker" like I don't know what I'm talking about and have no value. I have relationships with many different knuckleboom dealers and experts in the industry. I've had Palfinger dealers and other brand dealers call me asking about the grapple saw because no other dealers will discuss it with them... like it's some secret. I work together with Palfinger, Copma, PM, Hiab and Fassi dealers, I'm not some salesman that will tell a potential customer what they want to hear just to get a sale... just ask anyone that's talked to me... I'm a pretty straight shooter. I'm very passionate about knucklebooms and excited to see people in the USA finally discovering all of the things you can do with them. I've written a few articles about them and will be adding a lot more content on my website in the coming months to help educate people about this technology.

You were fine with me when I interviewed you for my article https://www.knuckleboomtrader.com/mecanil-grapple-saws/ but after that I'm not sure what happened. Anyways... enough of this on here, if you want to talk give me a call.
 

SJ_Treeguy

Active Member
First thing this thread is off topic so lets straighten somethings out
1 Glen and others from Europe are the pioneers in this field
2 Effer is not the innovator of kbooms and tree work, i had an Atlas kboom doing tree work in 2000 way before Mike Poor and Mark Moeske ,and Paul Beister was using kboom in 1994 .
3 Knuckleboom Trader is very knowledgeable and a good guy , we are not attacking him this is about spending hard earned money and getting quality service so we do not lose money when equipment is down .
4 There are no PRIVATE conversations behind the scenes to keep things hush hush , it is a place for those that have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars on a piece of equipment to get real time answers to real time questions so they don't lose thousands of dollars on down time
5 There are numerous Mecanil dealers throughout the USA and Canada that will speak to you ! Mecanil does not want to stifle sales by keeping their product under wraps
6 All crane manufacturers allow attachments to be put on their cranes
7 Why do you all get butt hurt when the truth is spoken ? Are we not grown men playing with remote controlled toys !! lol
 

SJ_Treeguy

Active Member
And this one is just for Limbcontrol , My palfinger has been in service for two years, Glens crane 4 years and i believe The Xman is like 8 years ! So Palfinger has had a presents in the tree industry as long and maybe longer than Effer , please have your facts straight . Thanks
 

limbcontrol

Active Member
Rick,
when I built my crane, which was in 2014, there was only one Palfinger tree co. that I could consult with that had one at that time, David Driver. You did not have your palfinger, nor did Glen have a Palfinger. Glen was in the testing phases of his Palfinger kboom in February 2015, exactly two years ago today. It is the second month in 2017 so where are you coming up with 4 years of Glen using a Palfinger?? Some of the guys you mentioned were only using their kbooms to load wood and that's not where a kboom excels or in the way I am referring to. The guys I mentioned were using kbooms to dismantle large trees. They are the pioneers to me.
 

Gerasimek

Active Member
Tis true. I started using my Palfinger January 2015. I used the Mecanil on my little Hiab starting November 2013. I built the Hiab in 2002. Not that it was a big moment in history or anything.
There is, however, a super secret society with secret handshakes and secret passwords just like 'little rascals' that all grown men vie to be accepted into. The only requirement is a super sarcastic sense of humor and a minium investment of 250 grand.
I'm kidding. Really.
It's like Burger King. Make it your way. Do it however you feel most comfortable and be confident there are guys willing to give you their opinions in an effort to help you avoid costly mistakes. Your decision makes absolutely no difference to me. It's a free country.
I don't know. That may have been by best post ever. Yes. I believe it was.
Again, Gareth, sorry for the hijack. Things be getting all crazy up in here.
 

Jerad Oren

Active Member
Kinda sums up this whole thread:)
That's what you get when a bunch of guys start a discourse about their booms. Change is rarely accepted with open arms. It's usually presented as the holy grail by some and makes other skeptical, therefore creating a pushback. We didn't mean to offend anyone but are all genuinely passion about our machines.
Fear is also something that might be of concern with these machines. The possibility of someone buying one and replacing most of their crew is something that probably frightens us all. Traditional stick booms still need a climber in the tree and one or two ground guys to process the material. These machines can do all of it and load it into the chipper. I don't know how this is going to change the tree industry or if that is a good or a bad thing. I do know we are having a shortage of good workers, just check any arborist employment sites and for every one person looking for work there is 100 businesses hiring. This is the future of tree work, i'm sorry if these machines don't fit into your plans and current equipment. I know as a business owner or a (climber) who has invested much into building what they are, these machines may not look like a good thing. That may be where some difficulty stems from and if it is, I am truly sorry for approaching in in a way that did not address that.
 

SJ_Treeguy

Active Member
So this is my retraction and my apology to John "limbcontrol" , My dates were off with Glenn . I finished my crane install March April 2015 , the first job was May 2015, grapple saw installed February 2016 so one years use on the saw.
 

SJ_Treeguy

Active Member
Hey Todd this not a contest ! You miss all of what we are trying to communicate here , WE LOSE MONEY WHEN CRANES ARE DOWN so choose wisely who builds and how they handle the service end of the crane purchase !
 

SJ_Treeguy

Active Member
To Gareth please accept my apology for guideing your tread in the wrong direction .

So to get back on point, i market my grapple to other tree companies in my area ( we do a 50 mile radius) that have good climbers and would normally rent my crane service to dismantle a problem tree but would rather not put them in the tree because i can remove 2/3 of the tree with the saw and two of their employees and only expose the climber to one hour of climbing for the trunk. The same companies now see that they can make more money in one day with the same amount of employees, two go with me and the others go on to another job and they gross 2/3 more in the same day they would have only completed one job.
 
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