Luke Glines

Mark Chisholm

Administrator
I'm not on Facebook and I'm sure others aren't either, so I wanted to post something here about Lukes accident. I heard that he took a pretty good fall in a competition climb this weekend. I believe only injured his foot thank god. From what I know his tie in point broke during a Masters climb after he redirected.

Glad it's not worse Luke! Health up quick buddy.

This sort of thing is very easy to understand for me. During a Masters you feel pressured to get into the tree and possibly settle for an anchor that you may not use at work. The judges respect Luke as being such an expert that he is and feel that they shouldn't speak up unless it is painfully obvious that it's a hazard. My guess is that this was one of those times that it was a borderline call and then the failure happened. It's an eye opener for sure.
 

monkeylove

Well-Known Member
I was just watching a bunch of Masters Comps on Youtube this weekend and that (TIP selection) is always my biggest question Mark. I don't compete and while there is something to be said for being judged on the whole ball of wax, I'm not sure that installing the TIPs should be part of the timed process (removal and clean up for sure). I understand these are Masters but as climbers our TIP is the most important choice we make, and yet it is also the one we do from the furthest point away. If nothing else I think they should be given un-clocked time to climb up and inspect it or adjust it before the clock starts again. We would hope that checking out the tip from closer up would be the natural course during the work day so why not allow them the same benefit during a competition.

Glad to hear Luke is okay and that is was not worse.
 

GregManning

Super Moderator
Staff member
A big statement to always have a very qualified Tree Tech to evaluate TIP's; original AND redirects.

I was not there.

In competition, climbers are not using normal production decisions.

They are under:

Time pressure
Peer pressure
Prizes & cash
Resume
Boosting rights, etc
 
Last edited:

Leroy

Well-Known Member
Mark, what do you think would be a proper response to this happening? As far as how to proceed with the competition.
 

macswan

Well-Known Member
A big statement to always have a very qualified Tree Tech to evaluate TIP's; original AND redirects.

I was not there.

In competition, climbers are not using normal production decisions.

They are under:

Time pressure
Peer pressure
Prizes & cash
Resume
Boosting rights, etc
It is really a very different feeling of pressure during comps. I could definitely see myself making decisions I wouldn't make normally.
 

Leroy

Well-Known Member
Completely Ban them until we develop stronger trees.
I am curious what a person with a lot of competition experience would deem an appropriate reaction at the moment of an incident like this. Carry on with the competition?
 

rich_h

Well-Known Member
Wishing Luke a full and speedy recovery. He is a beast of a talented climber and I look forward to seeing him back at full strength again soon !

Greg, one of the many things that I LOVE about the TreeJam event is that the emphasis in scoring is heavily weighted on safety and not speed. Time is certainly an element to most of the events during the day, but the actual scoring leans much more to rewarding good safe decisions vs. doing things quickly and perhaps settling for a potential to take a long swing or tying into a suspect branch.

This is not a dig on ISA sanctioned comps or any of the techs, judges, organizers, or competitors participating in them. The fact is that no branch unions on a tree are rated so there is no definitive way to ensure that a suspension point is going to hold. Many incredibly knowledgeable people volunteer immense amounts of time to make the comps enjoyable, challenging, and most importantly as safe as they can possibly be. The comps (in all shapes and forms) expose the professionalism and skill of our technicians and draw young women and men into an industry that they may have otherwise overlooked.

The only somewhat effective technique I know to help avoid a TIP failure is to tie in lower from the onset and then advance your TIP when you can assess the situation better than from 60' below. Advancing the line in both Doubled Rope set ups and Single Rope set ups takes much less time than figuring out how the hell you are going to work with a broken leg.....or much worse..

Tying in lower and never settling for a questionable branch union are the luxury for guys like me who are no longer out climbing production every day. I have climbed on way more than my fair share of questionable limbs in the past so in truth I have no leg to stand on to make any recommendations to any climbers on that regard. I only know that no other industry would put up with as many accidents as we have in Arb. We have to ability to reign in these accidents if we change our mind set and just plain never settle for a questionable limb as a tie in. Until trees come with rated anchors, what other choice do we have?
 

Riggs

Well-Known Member
What was the end result ? DQ , breaking a limb ? postponing masters ? redo ? . How would ITCC handle this situation ? How was situation handled ?
 

bonner1040

Well-Known Member
Was this Tree-Jam ?
What was the end result ? DQ , breaking a limb ? postponing masters ? redo ? . How would ITCC handle this situation ? How was situation handled ?

Best wishes to Luke on a speedy recovery! As a climber and event organizer this really hits home with me on multiple fronts.

I would like to point out that to my knowledge, this happened at the ISA Rocky Mountain Chapter TCC, not at Tree Jam Camp which is an event run by my friend Jake Carufel. Which makes sense cause Luke Glines lives in Colorado, not Michigan.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

GregManning

Super Moderator
Staff member
, not at Tree Jam Camp which is an event run by my friend Jake Carufel. Which makes sense cause Luke Glines lives in Colorado, not Michigan.
Last year Tree-Jam-Camp attracted climbers, and families, from Minnesota, California, WI, KY, OH, NJ, UK, Sweden, etc, etc
(Great Event ! - - - I missed this year w/ some eye problems.)
 
Last edited:

Tony

Well-Known Member
Wishing Luke a full and speedy recovery. He is a beast of a talented climber and I look forward to seeing him back at full strength again soon !

Greg, one of the many things that I LOVE about the TreeJam event is that the emphasis in scoring is heavily weighted on safety and not speed. Time is certainly an element to most of the events during the day, but the actual scoring leans much more to rewarding good safe decisions vs. doing things quickly and perhaps settling for a potential to take a long swing or tying into a suspect branch.

This is not a dig on ISA sanctioned comps or any of the techs, judges, organizers, or competitors participating in them. The fact is that no branch unions on a tree are rated so there is no definitive way to ensure that a suspension point is going to hold. Many incredibly knowledgeable people volunteer immense amounts of time to make the comps enjoyable, challenging, and most importantly as safe as they can possibly be. The comps (in all shapes and forms) expose the professionalism and skill of our technicians and draw young women and men into an industry that they may have otherwise overlooked.

The only somewhat effective technique I know to help avoid a TIP failure is to tie in lower from the onset and then advance your TIP when you can assess the situation better than from 60' below. Advancing the line in both Doubled Rope set ups and Single Rope set ups takes much less time than figuring out how the hell you are going to work with a broken leg.....or much worse..

Tying in lower and never settling for a questionable branch union are the luxury for guys like me who are no longer out climbing production every day. I have climbed on way more than my fair share of questionable limbs in the past so in truth I have no leg to stand on to make any recommendations to any climbers on that regard. I only know that no other industry would put up with as many accidents as we have in Arb. We have to ability to reign in these accidents if we change our mind set and just plain never settle for a questionable limb as a tie in. Until trees come with rated anchors, what other choice do we have?

Extremely well stated Rich. Thank you.

Tony
 

GregManning

Super Moderator
Staff member
Greg, one of the many things that I LOVE about the TreeJam event is that the emphasis in scoring is heavily weighted on safety and not speed. Time is certainly an element to most of the events during the day, but the actual scoring leans much more to rewarding good safe decisions vs. doing things quickly and perhaps settling for a potential to take a long swing or tying into a suspect branch.
This IS particularly true with Tree-Jam's "3ATC", which Rich & I worked last year.
Tree-Jam typically has several different climbing competition events.
 

WaitakKauri

Well-Known Member
Have been watching for any updates, I hope this climber I doing ok.

Has me thinking more about safety with respect to going fast (or trying to) at comps.
 
I'm not on Facebook and I'm sure others aren't either, so I wanted to post something here about Lukes accident. I heard that he took a pretty good fall in a competition climb this weekend. I believe only injured his foot thank god. From what I know his tie in point broke during a Masters climb after he redirected.

Glad it's not worse Luke! Health up quick buddy.

This sort of thing is very easy to understand for me. During a Masters you feel pressured to get into the tree and possibly settle for an anchor that you may not use at work. The judges respect Luke as being such an expert that he is and feel that they shouldn't speak up unless it is painfully obvious that it's a hazard. My guess is that this was one of those times that it was a borderline call and then the failure happened. It's an eye opener for sure.
Thanks Mark. Sure appreciate the concern from the arborist community. You guessed well about how it happened. Only that it was my main anchor point and there was no redirect. I had originally had my line running down the backside to catch on larger branches, but I thought there may be some smaller diameter branches that could break and risk a DQ so I opted to isolate it better and in the process lost the ability to get it to drop back over some larger diameter stems. In a work situation I would have just re thrown, but in a comp it's just go with it and get into the tree. Now in retrospect it seems completely unwise, but with adrenaline pumping I had hoped like hell the judges would approve it. I knew it was questionable. So when I hit the ground, my first response was to be sorry for placing the judges in that position. I've been doing this long enough to know better. The silver lining in the whole thing is that it has brought me closer to many fellow climbers as I've heard the sincere concern and wishes for a speedy recovery. It has also brought to light that there far many things more important than winning-sounds like a no brainer, but to the competitive mind it can be a do or die attitude-and it's definitely not worth that! I do think things like this can make it safer as we go forward in the competitive environments as well as the work environments. And thanks again for the concern.
 
Top