Kmiii max sewn eye

Discussion in 'The Splice Rack' started by Z'sTrees, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. Z'sTrees

    Z'sTrees Well-Known Member

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    Technically not a splice, but...

    I was told by wesspur that they can't sell the km3 max with a sewn eye due to insufficient break test numbers that do not meet the ansi 5400lb standard.

    Treestuff said no problem, Sherrill has a sewn eye available on their site as well.
    After a bit more research, teufelberger's website says 3370lb for a sewn termination, while the standard kmiii is rated at 5400mbs sewn.

    Any insight on why this might be? Does treestuff/sherrill know something that wesspur doesn't? Or is wesspur more cautious and fastidious than the other vendors?
     
  2. Worthaug

    Worthaug Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately it comes down to the manufacturer. I appreciate Wesspur’s approach personally.

    What would you use a sewn eye termination for in a rope designed for stationary work positioning?


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  3. Z'sTrees

    Z'sTrees Well-Known Member

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    I agree, and trust teufelberger's knowledge and wesspur's caution by default.

    As far as why the eye , I have one in every rope and I find them very useful. Most times it's just for non life support applications but its a nice and tidy way to choke a spar with a steel biner. I'm leery of sewing my own "accessory" eye and letting someone else use the rope.
     
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  4. evo

    evo Well-Known Member

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    You found a can of worms. There is no standard for this. There is no standard for knotted termination so what is allowed for sewn or spliced (I believe ANSI says it’s up to the manufacture.)?
    Personally I am not fond of sewn splices. I would use them in a basket configuration, but not in a dead end terminal application (such as a belay, or traditional false crotch Ddrt config.)
     
  5. seanlarkin

    seanlarkin Active Member

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    Z,

    Thank you for the post, you've raised some good questions.

    Obviously I can't speak on Wesspur's behalf, but I can say that not all sewn splices are the same. There are different machines and different stitch patterns. For us, we use our own proprietary stitch patterns, that we write ourselves, to retain as much of the rope's strength as possible without being a bulky mess.

    The sewn splice we use for KMIII Max does break above the 5,400 mark. I asked the splice team to provide data and they broke three for me. Here are the results:
    [​IMG]
    The numbers you see below "Peak" are the load at which a break happened (x 1,000). So for the first test, 6.17 equates to a break at 6,170 lbs. The test is a straight pull. On the third test, the rope/splice didn't even fail, the carabiner did. I'll still use that number towards the overall average though, which comes to an average break strength of 6,683 lbs.

    I looked at the Teufelberger website too, and noticed that the KMIII shows a significant different between the sewn splice and figure 8 knot's strengths, but they have the KMIII Max's sewn splice and figure 8 knot's strengths rated the same. I'm going to check with them to see if maybe that's a data entry error. None of their other ropes show the same strength for sewn and figure 8.

    Again, I appreciate the question. We want everyone to be safe, and have full confidence in their gear. If you have any other questions or concerns, just let me know.

    Thanks!

    -Sean
     
  6. Z'sTrees

    Z'sTrees Well-Known Member

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    Great post and information, thanks Sean
     
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  7. JeffGu

    JeffGu Well-Known Member

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    Good info... I've been climbing and rigging with sewn splices in KM III 1/2" and KM MAX 7/16" ropes for a couple of years. None of those sewn splices look any different than when they were new (I know this because I have pics taken when they were new). I'm currently using 1/2" KM III with sewn splices on both ends in a speedline setup which I'm still fiddling with and testing, but no problems, so far, with static loads up to 600 lbs. which would be the 1:10 WLL at the break numbers you posted.
     
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  8. GregManning

    GregManning Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Excellent ! ! !
     
  9. colb

    colb Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking to get ~40 feet of KMIII with a sewn and spliced end to test out with my hook. I'm unsure of which end will retrieve more smoothly. Anyone have any experience with this? For me, the hook is an SRT work positioning device.
     
  10. oceans

    oceans Well-Known Member

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    - Joining two lines together and retaining more strength than a knot.
    - Clean termination for using the tail in temporary DdRT (MRS) config.
    - Streamling rope installation.
    - Sending up large, fragile, glazed donuts on a William Carabiner. :)
     
  11. oceans

    oceans Well-Known Member

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    The Teufelberger rating may be for a Slaice, rather than a typical sewing shop eye.
     
  12. Worthaug

    Worthaug Well-Known Member

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    Knot
    Knot
    I make mouse eyes for this
    Can I get a sausage egg and cheese on an everything bagel?


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  13. Worthaug

    Worthaug Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think the Slaice is possible in a core dependent rope...


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  14. oceans

    oceans Well-Known Member

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    Imma jis gonna hafta look inna that now!
     
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  15. Crimsonking

    Crimsonking Well-Known Member

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    I noticed your specific term "temporary" ddrt. Is there a construction issue that should deter me from using a parallel core rope for ddrt other than reduced dynamics?
     
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  16. Worthaug

    Worthaug Well-Known Member

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    The load bearing core strands do not work together like those of a braided core. (16 strand being the exception, because, the parallel core bears no load)


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  17. Crimsonking

    Crimsonking Well-Known Member

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    Ah, so I should stop using my htp for both srt and ddrt?
     
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  18. Worthaug

    Worthaug Well-Known Member

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    You should stop using HTP, period.


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  19. Crimsonking

    Crimsonking Well-Known Member

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  20. colb

    colb Well-Known Member

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    @Worthaug How and why do you know so much about rope construction?
     

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