Just finished a climbing course over the weekend

Merle Nelson

Well-Known Member
"The thing that I struggled with the most was limb walking because I just didn't trust my gear. The instructors told me that feeling this was normal and all psychological and that I would get better at this."
That is normal and a good thing. Trust your instincts for self preservation. Only when you have built skills one by one and know you can walk out a thirty foot limb to lighten the end is it a possibility that you can do it reliably, repeatably, and safely.

Ignore any ego or someones comments that you should be able to do a thing.
 
You need months of on the ground cutting, learning about wood, species of trees you will be putting your life in, limbs, specific rot organisms, what to look for /defecencies, long long list of things to know. Your at a very high risk of getting killed by the things you don't know and now it is even greater if you start climbing and cutting. The things you learn about climbing is the easy part. That is why there is so much death and injury in this industry.
Training companies teaching climbing with out the fundamentals.
Walk before you run. Cut on the ground before you climb.
Breaks my heart the industry chooses death over diligence!
Profit over vocation.
Industry is a disgrace look after yourself
Thanks RopeShield. Theres definitely lots to learn.
 

Phoenix

Member
( taken from excerpts of arboriculture folklore, and in response to Rico’s shitting from tree story)
Once, many years ago in the deep dark woods of der schwartzwald, there was a man of Great climbing prowess who carried with him, his own ground crew ( of whom, some, doubled as his minstrel team) on his back. This hero, of sorts, would travel from town to town displaying all various array of technique and theatrics unparalleled by man or ape alike. On one such occasion, the great mystic(for he also was master in matters of the human spirit) boasted to the gathering crowd, “today you shall witness something never seen, something truly amazing! Today!( brief pause for effect)you will witness true devotion... Ladies and gentlemen, I now produce for you,(another pause for effect)The Super Perfect!!!” (smattering oohs and ahhs throughout thevstill gathering crowd) Our hero, quickly and without hesitation donns his
harness and is very soon ascending, seemingly straight into the heavens. It is at this point that the humble ground slaves create a circle beneath the silhouetted manchrist! Suddenly, there is a sound like thunder, and directly following, a large lump of shit is hurling toward earth. The slaves, bodge,jostle, and bump one another in an attempt to achieve the unspeakable feat! With outstretched throats the slaves careen this way and that. In the last moment, one slave, leaps with such grace as to snatch away the coveted prize from his brethren. He shall be the next! He to shall some day command his crew to ready! The Super Perfect! You too humble groundslaves and aspiring climbers, shall one day rinse the the fetid shit taste from your mouth and rise to glory!! Long live the climber!!
Amen
 

Bango Skank

Well-Known Member
I really can't stress enough how important it is to be able to safely and comfortably run a chainsaw on the ground before climbing with one. Felling, bucking, and limbing will teach you some about how wood behaves, and what kind of reaction you can expect from tensioned or compressed wood.

That'd be great if you hire a climber that doesn't mind sharing his knowledge with you.
 

Chaplain242

Well-Known Member
You need months of on the ground cutting, learning about wood, species of trees you will be putting your life in, limbs, specific rot organisms, what to look for /defecencies, long long list of things to know. Your at a very high risk of getting killed by the things you don't know and now it is even greater if you start climbing and cutting. The things you learn about climbing is the easy part. That is why there is so much death and injury in this industry.
Training companies teaching climbing with out the fundamentals.
Walk before you run. Cut on the ground before you climb.
Breaks my heart the industry chooses death over diligence!
Profit over vocation.
Industry is a disgrace look after yourself
Learning the way wood peels/bends when cutting is important. Also how to manhandle the branch/section also so there is controlled delivery to ground. Cutting technique is important, but combined with appropriate size and direction makes a safe cut. When is rigging important?

To start with maybe best to use snap cuts so that you can put the cuts in, park the saw, and manhandle the piece. Will give you a chance to feel what the wood grain is doing as it snaps (how thick/thin the distance between cuts has to be with that type of wood etc...
 

Mowerr

Well-Known Member
Speaking of which, how many of you have actually dropped a deuce in a tree? A raise of hands please.
When I was in my mid 20's we did a big dead old growth Fir removal. The tree was about 9ft DBH and a solid 225 ft-235 ft, This was before all the new gadgetry, so it was old-school, rolling a 7/8" flipline and spurring through big shaggy decomposing bark. Anyone who has climbed a big dead Fir knows how truly miserable and bloody a climb like this can be. I finally got to the top of this thing, set my rigging, bombed on down to the first limb, and we started working the tree. A few limbs in and I suddenly needed to poop. Not now but right now. I thought about bombing to the ground to relieve myself but there was no way I was spurring back up this fucking pig. I ask the boys to send up a paper bag and some TP, stood on top of a big 24" limb and pooped right there in the tree at 130 ft in the air, then threw the bag at them. Never seen Bruce the Moose move so fucking fast. The highlight of my less than stellar career!
What kind of harness were u wearing? Did ya take it off or remove leg loops ?
 

rico

Well-Known Member
So we had 15 pages of telling a guy who had actually never climbed a fucking tree that it was probably a bad idea to starting doing tree-work professionally. He tells us that he knows better and gonna do it anyhow, and make some serious fucking bank along the way! He goes and plays in a few tree for the weekend and suddenly realizes this shit ain't so easy. Priceless!

Now were gonna spend 15 more pages trying to explain to this knucklehead who has never actually run a saw in a tree, let alone swung a log over a house, how cut and rig trees? Does this fool know how to tie a running bowline, or a timber hitch, ? Does he even know were the pull cords in on a fucking saw, let alone the fundamentals and proper mechanics of cutting? My answer to this ridiculous thread is the same as the last one. Go get a fucking job in the field for a few years minimum , start at the beginning and learn from the ground up, and please quite trying to do an end around that beautiful thing called experience.

Can we please talk a little more about pooping in trees?
 

Mowerr

Well-Known Member
So we had 15 pages of telling a guy who had actually never climbed a fucking tree that it was probably a bad idea to starting doing tree-work professionally. He tells us that he knows better and gonna do it anyhow, and make some serious fucking bank along the way! He goes and plays in a few tree for the weekend and suddenly realizes this shit ain't so easy. Priceless!

Now were gonna spend 15 more pages trying to explain to this knucklehead who has never actually run a saw in a tree, let alone swung a log over a house, how cut and rig trees? Does this fool know how to tie a running bowline, or a timber hitch, ? Does he even know were the pull cords in on a fucking saw, let alone the fundamentals and proper mechanics of cutting? My answer to this ridiculous thread is the same as the last one. Go get a fucking job in the field for a few years minimum , start at the beginning and learn from the ground up, and please quite trying to do an end around that beautiful thing called experience.

Can we please talk a little more about pooping in trees?
I think pooping in a tree should have its owns thread and maybe its own book.
 

Chaplain242

Well-Known Member
So we had 15 pages of telling a guy who had actually never climbed a fucking tree that it was probably a bad idea to starting doing tree-work professionally. He tells us that he knows better and gonna do it anyhow, and make some serious fucking bank along the way! He goes and plays in a few tree for the weekend and suddenly realizes this shit ain't so easy. Priceless!

Now were gonna spend 15 more pages trying to explain to this knucklehead who has never actually run a saw in a tree, let alone swung a log over a house, how cut and rig trees? Does this fool know how to tie a running bowline, or a timber hitch, ? Does he even know were the pull cords in on a fucking saw, let alone the fundamentals and proper mechanics of cutting? My answer to this ridiculous thread is the same as the last one. Go get a fucking job in the field for a few years minimum , start at the beginning and learn from the ground up, and please quite trying to do an end around that beautiful thing called experience.

Can we please talk a little more about pooping in trees?
For him and all others that would like to get involved in climbing cutting trees, sometimes more info is better than none so they endeavour to do just what you said... (not the pooping part...)
 

SomethingWitty

Arkansawyer
You need months of on the ground cutting, learning about wood, species of trees you will be putting your life in, limbs, specific rot organisms, what to look for /defecencies, long long list of things to know. Your at a very high risk of getting killed by the things you don't know and now it is even greater if you start climbing and cutting. The things you learn about climbing is the easy part. That is why there is so much death and injury in this industry.
Training companies teaching climbing with out the fundamentals.
Walk before you run. Cut on the ground before you climb.
Breaks my heart the industry chooses death over diligence!
Profit over vocation.
Industry is a disgrace look after yourself
No matter what, it is ultimately his responsibility to keep himself from dying.
 

SomethingWitty

Arkansawyer
I understand that folks are just trying to help this fool out, but sometimes all that info gleaned from the internet can just make matters worse?
Man, sometimes.
How many things have y'all taught yourselves to do with the help of the internet?
If I had to make the mistakes in climbing that I've made in instrument building, boat building, welding, milling, small engine repair, or driving a goddamn manual transmission, I would certainly have earned a nickname(if I was alive at all.)
 

rico

Well-Known Member
Man, sometimes.
How many things have y'all taught yourselves to do with the help of the internet?
If I had to make the mistakes in climbing that I've made in instrument building, boat building, welding, milling, small engine repair, or driving a goddamn manual transmission, I would certainly have earned a nickname(if I was alive at all.)
Can't argue with this Mr. Witty as I have learned more here in the last few years than I had in the prior decade or 2. The inter-web can be a valuable learning tool, but you have to have some sort of foundation to build upon. This guy seems so behind the curve that mansplaining how to climb, cut, and rig seems a little irresponsible. Zero climbing experience, zero cutting aloft experience, and zero rigging experience. What could possible go wrong? Dude needs to go get a fucking job with a pro outfit plain and simple.

"or driving a goddamn manual transmission". Got a funny visual of you in an empty parking lot in the middle of the night!
 

SomethingWitty

Arkansawyer
Can't argue with this Mr. Witty as I have learned more here in the last few years than I had in the prior decade or 2. The inter-web can be a valuable learning tool, but you have to have some sort of foundation to build upon. This guy seems so behind the curve that mansplaining how to climb, cut, and rig seems a little irresponsible. Zero climbing experience, zero cutting aloft experience, and zero rigging experience. What could possible go wrong? Dude needs to go get a fucking job with a pro outfit plain and simple.

"or driving a goddamn manual transmission". Got a funny visual of you in an empty parking lot in the middle of the night!
Naw, man. I learned on the boss' old ass chip truck with a 366 (gutless) and a 4 speed. He didn't have the time or inclination to actually teach me, and I would rather just dive in after reading about it the night before.
Day one, I drove it to job and ripped the shifter off.
Day two, I grenaded the chunk because I dumped it into first when I was rolling backwards and I got spooked.

Lessons cost a few grand anyway, right? I can drive now.
 

southsoundtree

Well-Known Member
Question on cutting a tree. When bringing a tree down, do you start removing limbs from the ground up, or from the top to the bottom?

Common sense tells me that we should start from bottom to top because if you start from top to bottom, the branches you are cutting would be hitting the bottom branches. Isnt this correct?

There is no correct answer. There are so many situations. Dead trees, stripped, will be worse to top, as there is no vibration dampening, and you could set up a wave on the tree, but generally, yes, bottom up.

I've rolled/ rigged a decent-redwood, limbs and logs, in a couple pieces. The limbs did almost all the work. The rope lowered it once it was flipped to be butt-tie upward, and it came free of the branches, over asphalt., 6' diameter or something on the flare.


Then, there is the both on the way up and down.

Sometimes you can just cut a limb, drop it onto the limb lower, then pull it free and drop it, no rigging.

Sometimes you will strip a path up a tree to set rigging. You might speedline some stuff off, free-drop, or rig to clear a rope path to rig off the low, long limbs.


I removed a conifer at the corner of the house. I cut the limbs on a spiral, leaving a ramp of branches over the house. I could free-drop (snap-cut) limbs that would roll down the ramps, and off into the lawn. No rigging branches, no manually-controlling them. Two hands on the saw. Once my climbing line was up high, I could easily piece out the limbs over/ on the roof.
 
So we had 15 pages of telling a guy who had actually never climbed a fucking tree that it was probably a bad idea to starting doing tree-work professionally. He tells us that he knows better and gonna do it anyhow, and make some serious fucking bank along the way! He goes and plays in a few tree for the weekend and suddenly realizes this shit ain't so easy. Priceless!

Now were gonna spend 15 more pages trying to explain to this knucklehead who has never actually run a saw in a tree, let alone swung a log over a house, how cut and rig trees? Does this fool know how to tie a running bowline, or a timber hitch, ? Does he even know were the pull cords in on a fucking saw, let alone the fundamentals and proper mechanics of cutting? My answer to this ridiculous thread is the same as the last one. Go get a fucking job in the field for a few years minimum , start at the beginning and learn from the ground up, and please quite trying to do an end around that beautiful thing called experience.

Can we please talk a little more about pooping in trees?
Nah man, you're the fool. Taking this course also made me realize that there are people out there that really want to help out and others like you that just like to talk shit and try to discourage others.

There were a couple of people there that had been working years as groundies that didn't know much about the training taught there. There were also a couple that had never worked as groundies and went straight to climbing and already knew their shit.

A running bowline? That shit is easy as fuck. Quit trying to make it seem as if it's rocket science.

Running a chainsaw? Yeah that's easy when you're on the ground. Not so easy when you're up on a tree.

Like I said, being around tree guys this weekend I got to see that there are alot of cool people that encourage you and try to help you learn. Then there are appereantly others like you that just talk a lot of shit. It's sad really.
 

southsoundtree

Well-Known Member
Running a chainsaw on the ground better than Bob Vila is easy. Being a super proficient sawyer with years of experience makes very hard things look easy.

Cutting apart a large, suspended piece so it can fit a dropzone is easy, right? Or do you mean cutting firewood, a log on the ground, is easy?

I've got lots of guys applying that think they're hot shit, with years of "production crew experience". They are F'ing rookies full of terrible habits and low skills. Can't sharpen a chain for real. Don't understand binds, or how to cut apart a large, felled tree, or a large, suspended piece. Shoot, I generally have to teach them to hold the saw right. You don't bang nails with the side of the hammer, right? Why hold the saw wrong?



I can ice-skate backwards somewhat, a triple-axle doesn't look that hard.
 
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