Is this hen of the woods

Discussion in 'Bugs and Crud' started by baumeister, Aug 18, 2017.

?

Is this hen(chicken) of the woods?

  1. yes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. no

    2 vote(s)
    100.0%
  1. baumeister

    baumeister Active Member

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    This is on an oak tree (see attached pictures). Can anyone verify this is chicken of the woods?
     

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  2. JD3000

    JD3000 Well-Known Member

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    I say Berkley's polypore
     
  3. KTSmith

    KTSmith Well-Known Member

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    Given the usual disclaimer on ID from photos, I'd agree with JD.
    Also, the subject line for the thread bears a cautionary note. The fungus that usually goes by "chicken of the woods" is a Laetiporus and the one that goes by "hen of the woods" is a Grifola. Two very different fungi, both in appearance and in classification.
     
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  4. JD3000

    JD3000 Well-Known Member

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    Kevin how many of the edible varieties have you tried, and which ones would you recommend?

    Given the usual disclaimer about eating found fungi that is...
     
  5. baumeister

    baumeister Active Member

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    Wow! Awesome. Nice ID. It is indeed Berkeley polypore.

    Found this at North Carolina extension:

    Studies have indicated that severity of decay can be estimated by: 1. Presence of basidiocarps; 2. Number of basidiocarps-the greater the number, the more decay; 3. Size of basidiocarps-the larger the basidiocarp of a given species, the more decay; and 4. Distribution of basidiocarps around the tree-the larger the percentage of the circumference found, the more decay.

    So my natural follow up question is:

    1. Has anyone ever studied the relation of basidiocarp mass to tree diameter. So I could measure the weight of all basidiocarps produced and get an idea of how much decay there is??

    2. Any suggestions on best ways to measure decay?? I am thinking sonic tomo.
     
  6. guymayor

    guymayor Well-Known Member

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    37# is the record so far. on a shingle oak in Cincinnati. Twice reduced and looking very good. :)

    With all due respect from my almost-alma mater, NCSU's guidelines are very general, like a wild guess, and hard to apply. Yes tomography can give good info. Pulled 19# off a white oak in Raleigh NC. It's also been reduced twice, and tomo'd twice as well. Case Study #1 here; maybe halfway through. http://www.historictreecare.com/wp-admin/post.php?post=1414&action=edit

    re ncsu, i did a lit review there as independent study after i got sick of hearing ncsu extension recommending the removal of every tree with a fungal conk. 15 years ago, but still miles from the mainstream:
    FUNGAL STRATEGIES OF WOOD DECAY IN TREES
    In 1878, in Germany, as I learned in Forestry 101, the modern science of tree care was born with the publication of Robert Hartig’s text on tree disease. This landmark book described the parasitic mode of life of Armillaria on Scots pine and documented the breakdown of cell walls by Phellinus pini. In 1863, Schacht had described the invasion of cell walls by fungal hyphae. Lacking the tools necessary for a closer analysis, but building on Schacht’s work, Hartig postulated that enzymes secreted by fungal hyphae dissolved lignin and caused secondary cell walls to collapse. As a result, wood would become worthless, and trees would fall down.


    In 2000, in Germany, the science of tree care took a great leap forward. Building on the work of Hartig, Shigo and many others, Francis W.F.M.R. Schwarze, Julia Engels and Claus Mattheck published Fungal Strategies of Wood Decay in Trees. Now available worldwide, and made readily accessible to English speakers thanks to the superlative translation work of William Linnard, this book shows the reader an entirely new way of looking at decay in trees. By understanding fungus-tree interaction more completely, the tree manager can make decisions about how to handle infected trees with more certainty.


    More certainty is certainly needed today. Many authorities tell tree managers that infections by Armillaria, Ganoderma, Inonotus and other fungi are considered sufficient cause for immediate removal of the tree for fear of failure. However, based on over ten years of research, Schwarze tells us “…the mere occurrence of a fungus fruit body on a tree does not indicate the extent of the decay…Degradation processes, host differences and environmental conditions are too diverse…decays often affect only a small amount of wood in the tree, so that stability and safety are not impaired.”


    The book begins with a review of wood anatomy, focusing on the layered structure of the cell wall. Readers of Mattheck’s earlier work will recognize the hedgehog demonstrating the mechanical stresses within the tree. By listening to this “body language” spoken inside the tree, the diagnostician may “hear” the decay spread--and sometimes stop. With magnification up to 1000x, the reader is able to see clearly the action of the fungus in the cells, and the reaction of the trees to the attack.


    Fungal pathology is reviewed next; the brown, white and soft rots. Much advanced information on soft rots, which were first described by Schacht in 1863, is presented. For instance, research by Schwarze et al prove what Sinclair, Lyon and Johnson saw indications of in 1987—that Hypoxylon deustum (a.k.a. Ustulina deusta) causes a soft rot in the sapwood of various trees. This is just one example of a pathogen shifting strategies, from saprophyte to parasite, or from enzyme-secreting to hyphae-growing that the authors note, especially on moisture-stressed trees.


    Chapter Three, the heart of the book, is devoted to Fungus-Host Combinations. For a diagnostician of limited understanding, such as the reviewer, the illustrations here tell the tale of fungal pathology better than a thousand words. First, electron micrographs take the eye into intercellular and intracellular space, where the chemical battles take place. Then, three-dimensional anatomic drawings paint a distinct picture of the disease and the defense. Finally photographs, of standing trees and cross-sections, show what we all see in real life when a rotting tree is cut down and cut up.


    By pulling the eye and the mind from the inside of the tree to the outside and back again, the book allows the reader to exhaustively examine what takes place when fungus and tree combine. Still, as Schwarze says, “it requires an effort to understand these…’trials of strength’…the only sensible approach to predicting the future expansion of a decay…” Or termination of a decay process; for he and others have observed, “many trees, old and young, in which a decay has been successfully compartmentalized”. The authors note why “stress treatment” fertilization of struggling trees often backfires—decay fungi thrive on excess nitrogen.


    Chapter 4 begins with the compartmentalization model, and verifies that theory with microscopic assessment. Since most fungi which endanger trees’ stability work from the inside out, the ways that trees resist that outward spread are reviewed at some length. Xylem rays can be the trees’ Achilles Heels, the pathogens’ paths of least resistance. Similarly, xylem cracks produced by rapid drying after removal of a branch are “motorways” for infection, so the authors suggest that “the use of wound sealants could be quite successful against wound parasites. However there is still a great need for research here.” When large branches must be removed, experimenting with sealants seems preferable to opening the heartwood to decay. For information about the NEWTS—Network of Experimental Wound Treating and Sealing—contact the author.


    Throughout the book, we are reminded that the tree’s vitality and its energy reserves are the most important factors in making a prognosis. Since fungal spores are present throughout the air, soil and water that surrounds the tree, it is the arborist’s first and constant task to make trees stronger and more resistant to any attack. If fungus gets a foothold in a tree, following the discoveries within Fungal Strategies of Wood Decay in Trees can lead to a program to resist decay and retain and increase tree value.


    In 2000, in Germany, the science of tree care took a great leap forward. Building on the work of Hartig, Shigo and many others, Francis W.F.M.R. Schwarze, Julia Engels and Claus Mattheck published Fungal Strategies of Wood Decay in Trees. Now available worldwide, and made readily accessible to English speakers thanks to the superlative translation work of William Linnard, this book shows the reader an entirely new way of looking at decay in trees. By understanding fungus-tree interaction more completely, the tree manager can make decisions about how to handle infected trees with more certainty.


    More certainty is certainly needed today. Many authorities tell tree managers that infections by Armillaria, Ganoderma, Inonotus and other fungi are considered sufficient cause for immediate removal of the tree for fear of failure. However, based on over ten years of research, Schwarze tells us “…the mere occurrence of a fungus fruit body on a tree does not indicate the extent of the decay…Degradation processes, host differences and environmental conditions are too diverse…decays often affect only a small amount of wood in the tree, so that stability and safety are not impaired.”…


    Chapter Three, the heart of the book, is devoted to Fungus-Host Combinations. For a diagnostician of limited understanding, such as the reviewer, the illustrations here tell the tale of fungal pathology better than a thousand words. First, electron micrographs take the eye into intercellular and intracellular space, where the chemical battles take place. Then, three-dimensional anatomic drawings paint a distinct picture of the disease and the defense. Finally photographs, of standing trees and cross-sections, show what we all see in real life when a rotting tree is cut down and cut up.


    By pulling the eye and the mind from the inside of the tree to the outside and back again, the book allows the reader to exhaustively examine what takes place when fungus and tree combine. Still, as Schwarze says, “it requires an effort to understand these…’trials of strength’…the only sensible approach to predicting the future expansion of a decay…” Or termination of a decay process; for he and others have observed, “many trees, old and young, in which a decay has been successfully compartmentalized”. …


    Throughout the book, we are reminded that the tree’s vitality and its energy reserves are the most important factors in making a prognosis. Since fungal spores are present throughout the air, soil and water that surrounds the tree, it is the arborist’s first and constant task to make trees stronger and more resistant to any attack. If fungus gets a foothold in a tree, following the discoveries within Fungal Strategies of Wood Decay in Trees can lead to a program to resist decay and retain and increase tree value.
     
  7. JD3000

    JD3000 Well-Known Member

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    Great book
     
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  8. guymayor

    guymayor Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]This tomo image was useful but the pruning specs would not have been too different without it. upload_2017-8-23_7-31-59.png
     
  9. baumeister

    baumeister Active Member

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    IMG_7296.JPG Thanks a lot guy!! Your perspective is always very refreshing. Reading about that book makes me think of a recent finding. The pic above is of a Douglas fir healing its stump!!! I can't be sure, because the neighboring tree was removed, but I believe it was being fed through root grafts from the neighbor ( about 20 feet away) talk about trees trying to heal their wounds iThought this to be a wonderful example. !
     
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  10. baumeister

    baumeister Active Member

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    Hello guy: I posted a conversation to you in reference to reducing oaks. Do you get that?
     
  11. guymayor

    guymayor Well-Known Member

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    ? i dont think so.
     
  12. baumeister

    baumeister Active Member

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    Hmmm sorry. Here it is.

    Hello Guy:
    I have two white oak trees 48 and 51 inches in diameter respectively. They are about 110 to 115 feet tall. They are also next to a pool. How far down can I reduce white oaks in your experience and still have a viable Tree left? My first thought is approximately 2 m maximum . I would really like to see trees, but getting sunlight to the pool would require a severe reduction at least 1/3 of the tree. I will post a pic if you like. Heading there now.
     
  13. baumeister

    baumeister Active Member

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  14. baumeister

    baumeister Active Member

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    Do you think something like this is possible. See pic below. 2 white oaks. A 40 to 45% canopy reduction. Cuts would be in the 4" to 6" diameter range. The alternative is removal. The people want sun to the pool. I know you have done a lot of reductions. Also, would you be available this winter to come work w me on this. What is your fee structure if so. We can talk via phone too. Maybe we can try to start a private conversation.
     

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    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  15. pcarborist

    pcarborist Member

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    B, that's a heavy dose. Maybe do it over the course of 2-3 growing seasons?
     
  16. baumeister

    baumeister Active Member

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    Hmmm that's a thought. Do you think the trees will be able to take it?
     
  17. evo

    evo Well-Known Member

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    Correct. I have one in my garage which was dug up for a house to be built, callused completely over. I ripped it into slabs and you can make out the face, hinge and back cut. If I remember the ring count correctly it took about 37 years to fully occlude the stump.
     
  18. guymayor

    guymayor Well-Known Member

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    Agree re dose; attached.

    First I'd recommend a VERY thorough analysis of sun angle to clarify the objective, and what it will take to meet it.. And maybe something reflective to bounce some light back on the pool? Not kidding; all options need to be open before a healthy tree is veteranised/borderline mutilated.

    Winter not such a great time re codit. I'll be in OH in November which is not much better. Maybe March, before pool season? Reach me thru my website; I'd hate to publicly confess how cheap my rates are!
     

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