Hitching dead eye slings

#1
I have always used conventional loop type slings when I work around cranes. I was wanting to try a dead eye style sling like the Mark. C version from treestuff. When using those do most tie a running bowline? Timber hitch? Clove?
 

Treetopflyer

Well-Known Member
#4
Properly tied dressed timber hitch works.
Dyslexic timber hitches well they just don't...
I guess if your in question of it.. I'd heed flying squirrels advice
 

colb

Well-Known Member
#6
Cow hitch them DOGGIES! Runnin bows are acceptable..timber hitch.. in the words of a great crane operator I've had the pleasure of working with "I will accept that"
Cloves for myself no go
The cow just seems to fly around the wood so well it's a go to for top down and craning
Any time a knot (bowline) is used, the minimum break strength of the rope takes a big hit.
 

colb

Well-Known Member
#7
I asked treestuff about this with the Mark C slings they sell. Here is what they said:

The recommended knot is a cow hitch. The rating would be the choked strength which is 8,400 lbs.


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I'm trying to work up to craning with cow hitches instead of shackles and double deadeyes, but there's no video I can find on how to tie the cow hitch to a limb. Apparently, you tie it one way and it comes off straightforwardly when the groundies have to deal with it. Tie it the other way and something less favorable happens. Since I'm a crane newb, it's out of line for me to approach my "tried and true"-style operator about using different slings when I don't know how to use the dead eyes properly. He's a great crane operator on most counts. Really would love to see a video on this.
 

802climber

Active Member
#8
@colb
You might try working some dead eyes into your crane routine just using them as balancers. So you would use whatever slings your crane operator likes as your primary attachment and your dead eyes to help balance the pick. I would also pick up some round slings (endless loops). No more shackles to drop, way easier and lighter than metal slings. Some crane ops will not allow anything but metal slings.

I thought the point of the cow hitch was that it is a non-directional hitch, so you can tie it and load it in any direction without consequence? That is what I thought makes it superior to the timber hitch and even the clove hitch.

Does this help at all? Cow hitch is basically a girth hitch then a half hitch the the tail is wrapped like a timber hitch ..



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Treetopflyer

Well-Known Member
#10
Any time a knot (bowline) is used, the minimum break strength of the rope takes a big hit.
I should and will say since we're talking about it, to go a little farther with the thought. Loss of 30 percent of tensile strength sound about right give or take ? Or in other words ..the ropes tensile stregth is reduced to 70 percent it's rated tensile, thereabouts? Anyone?
Maybe a better thought is if your coming g that close to needing to worry about that. Increase the cordage to match the situation at hand!
 
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colb

Well-Known Member
#11
@colb
You might try working some dead eyes into your crane routine just using them as balancers. So you would use whatever slings your crane operator likes as your primary attachment and your dead eyes to help balance the pick. I would also pick up some round slings (endless loops). No more shackles to drop, way easier and lighter than metal slings. Some crane ops will not allow anything but metal slings.

I thought the point of the cow hitch was that it is a non-directional hitch, so you can tie it and load it in any direction without consequence? That is what I thought makes it superior to the timber hitch and even the clove hitch.

Does this help at all? Cow hitch is basically a girth hitch then a half hitch the the tail is wrapped like a timber hitch ..



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Yes, that helps start the conversation. I'm uncertain whether it's being used exactly like that fpr crane work. First, no one has mentioned logger-hitching the tail during crane operations. That would take a lot of (expensive) time. Second, in the picture, the hitch has a different purpose than it does in crane work, with commensurately different force vectors. Do you get what I'm saying about my second point? It (potentially, according to my memory of the previous thread on this) bears on being able to untie it on the ground, and possibly other things...
 
#13
I don't see a problem with using a clove hitch as long as you are not anywhere near pushing the limits of your rigging... Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...


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NE Tree

Well-Known Member
#14
Before I did my first crane job (I've only done 6 or 7 large trees) I had a hard time finding how people tied off their crane slings online (That's about my only option). My first job I tied running bowlines. I found that to be way too much work to adjust as I used 3 slings. I then switched to using a clove hitch backed up with 2 half hitches. This seemed to work much better and I haven't had any issue with it. That's not to say their couldn't be any. I've also since heard of using the cow hitch but haven't had a chance to try it out.
 

allmark

Well-Known Member
#16
All three knots are acceptable for crane use. Cow hitch is easiest to untie under heavy loads. Running bowline is great... if you are finding it more difficult to use for length adjustment try using a 1/2 hitch first and tie the running bow lower on the pic. The clove hitch is great but can be really tight to untie under heavy loads.
The issue I know of with the cow hitch is as a basal anchor and the orientation of the line to the TIP causing it to loosen.
 

colb

Well-Known Member
#17
All three knots are acceptable for crane use. Cow hitch is easiest to untie under heavy loads. Running bowline is great... if you are finding it more difficult to use for length adjustment try using a 1/2 hitch first and tie the running bow lower on the pic. The clove hitch is great but can be really tight to untie under heavy loads.
The issue I know of with the cow hitch is as a basal anchor and the orientation of the line to the TIP causing it to loosen.
On the cow hitch, does the end with the dead eye exit the "girth hitch" loop on the higher side of the branch or the lower side? Does the girth loop face inwards towards other sling placements, or outwards? Do you dress it with a loggers hitch, or otherwise? How does a newb like me mess it up? Can I practice cow hitches while non-crane climbing, rigging limbs that are below my terminal rigging point?
 
#18
On the cow hitch, does the end with the dead eye exit the "girth hitch" loop on the higher side of the branch or the lower side?
As mentioned it is seldom a half hitch is not placed above the cow. This kinda leads the dead eye end to the top of the hitch. Tying just kinda flows that way.

Does the girth loop face inwards towards other sling placements, or outwards?
Normally I find I’m working from the center because I’m hooked to the ball. When at the height of my sling attachment I move from the center and attach the sling. This again lends to having the half hitch facing the center and thus the cow hitch facing the center.

Do you dress it with a loggers hitch, or otherwise?
Sorry not familiar with the loggers hitch. We do however dress all cow hitches with at least one securing half hitch, when possible (most of the time) two.

How does a newb like me mess it up?
Normally the newb messes it up by rushing the process or over complicating the rigging. If a single choker stabilizes the piece that is the safest and quickest way to accomplish the task. The other thing I have seen is not getting multiple slings tensioned properly. This can be critical especially when close to obstacles, such as you (every pick). The way i accomplish this is by setting my distant sling first, then centering the crane over the piece. Then while leaning into the ball (via my rope) have the op cable up until the outer sling is just holding weight (you will feel the ball start to pull you toward center). Then attach the near sling as tight as I can with the half hitch and cow hitch. Only thing not accounted for is any type of roll, which should be easily fixed with an additional leg if needed.
Oh yea one more thing... balancing tip weight (beyond outer sling) and butt weight (cut side of the near sling) is big too. You can have all of the properly tensioned slings in the world, you mess up the balance and it’s gonna move, sometimes a lot!

Can I practice cow hitches while non-crane climbing, rigging limbs that are below my terminal rigging point?
Absolutely!!!! You just won’t be able to have that movable rigging point of the crane. So it’s still a little different. But it will get you practicing the knot, but not so much the placement of the slings for crane work.

Sorry about the descriptions, I unfortunately don’t have video of it, as it’s pretty difficult to get the “big picture” captured. And pictures may tell a thousand words but I can’t see how they would be overly helpful.
 

colb

Well-Known Member
#19
As mentioned it is seldom a half hitch is not placed above the cow. This kinda leads the dead eye end to the top of the hitch. Tying just kinda flows that way.


Normally I find I’m working from the center because I’m hooked to the ball. When at the height of my sling attachment I move from the center and attach the sling. This again lends to having the half hitch facing the center and thus the cow hitch facing the center.


Sorry not familiar with the loggers hitch. We do however dress all cow hitches with at least one securing half hitch, when possible (most of the time) two.


Normally the newb messes it up by rushing the process or over complicating the rigging. If a single choker stabilizes the piece that is the safest and quickest way to accomplish the task. The other thing I have seen is not getting multiple slings tensioned properly. This can be critical especially when close to obstacles, such as you (every pick). The way i accomplish this is by setting my distant sling first, then centering the crane over the piece. Then while leaning into the ball (via my rope) have the op cable up until the outer sling is just holding weight (you will feel the ball start to pull you toward center). Then attach the near sling as tight as I can with the half hitch and cow hitch. Only thing not accounted for is any type of roll, which should be easily fixed with an additional leg if needed.
Oh yea one more thing... balancing tip weight (beyond outer sling) and butt weight (cut side of the near sling) is big too. You can have all of the properly tensioned slings in the world, you mess up the balance and it’s gonna move, sometimes a lot!


Absolutely!!!! You just won’t be able to have that movable rigging point of the crane. So it’s still a little different. But it will get you practicing the knot, but not so much the placement of the slings for crane work.

Sorry about the descriptions, I unfortunately don’t have video of it, as it’s pretty difficult to get the “big picture” captured. And pictures may tell a thousand words but I can’t see how they would be overly helpful.
Sometimes words are as good or better. I think I can carry on from there. Appreciate it much!
 
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