HH2 Hitch Length

LordFarkwad

Active Member
How hard-and-fast/critical is the <2" requirement (found in the instructions) for the distance from the top of the HH2's body to the bottom wrap of the hitch?

As I've been watching videos of people using this thing, it looks like most people's hitch is a lot farther from the top of the device to the bottom hitch coil. Was wondering how critical this is, and if anyone had a word on why it's critical, if so.
 

oldoakman

Well-Known Member
I dont know about the "official" word but when my hitch distance gets too big of a gap the hitch won't grab correctly. Last time I climbed on it was with a new 10mm bee line cord that I had to retie 4 times in a 20 minute climb.
 

LordFarkwad

Active Member
I dont know about the "official" word but when my hitch distance gets too big of a gap the hitch won't grab correctly. Last time I climbed on it was with a new 10mm bee line cord that I had to retie 4 times in a 20 minute climb.
Does it end up not grabbing because of the dog bone holding the legs apart, which does not play well with that particular hitch the instructions say to tie, or something to that effect?
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
That hitch doesn’t grab reliably if it is allowed to stead out too far. There are single braid cords that work better than the RIT that comes with it. There are also other hitches that might work better for you.
 

LordFarkwad

Active Member
That hitch doesn’t grab reliably if it is allowed to stead out too far. There are single braid cords that work better than the RIT that comes with it. There are also other hitches that might work better for you.
Do you have a favorite combo? I'm using the RIT with Vortex, at the moment.

My feet were only about 18" off the ground this weekend, but I was exploring using the HH2 as the upper ascender in a Texas-style arrangement, along with a foot prusik (advanced manually while hanging from the HH2, attached to harness), and one time when I grabbed the HH2 to push it up the rope, its hitch released as I weighted it again, it collapsed onto the foot prusik, and I slid all the way down to the ground.

I believe that I was not being careful with my hand placement, and grabbed the dog bone as I was weighting it. I'm not entirely sure exactly how it caused the hitch to not catch, but instead of the dog bone getting pulled upwards as would normally happen, pinching the rope, it was being pulled down, releasing the rope.

Shook me up a little. But, it's also why I was so close to the ground while messing with the thing.

Side note: it also got me to wondering about backups while ascending on hitches, since if the top hitch in a series of hitches fails (by incorrect hand placement, at least), all below it will fail in series. I ended up experimenting by placing a simple Michoacan above the HH2's hitch, which the HH2's hitch would also advance, but having a longer webbing loop attached to my harness, such that the upper hitch would have no loading placed on it when the HH2 is fully loaded. This only protects against an errant hand placement (perhaps it could happen if one were startled? I don't know), and seems like it could conceivably alleviate this concern by being advanced by the hitch below it - in this case, the HH2 - and thus never requiring a hand to go near it to advance it. It has to be removed when descending, since it is out of reach when seated on the HH2 (and so, would arrest descent once the climber descended enough on the HH2 to fully extend the backup's loop).

I abandoned this idea though because when advancing, this hitch is always in 'contact' with the HH2's hitch. Even though the upper backup isn't weighted and the HH2's hitch is, it still gave me the creeps seeing something resting on top of the HH2's hitch.
 
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Brocky

Well-Known Member
I like the Knut H hitch using Regatta Braid, an all polyester cord, which seems to grip the best. Robline’s Racing Pro, made of polyester, dyneema, and technora,is also good.
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Some rope- cord combos require four wraps.

A simple backup is tying slip knots, over hands on a bight, on the rope below every so often. Something goes wrong and you only slide down to the knot.
 

southsoundtree

Well-Known Member
Every, too-loose hitch will not grab.

I have always tied mine as tight as possible, as in bending the rope over into a u-shape, to tighten the knot.

I very, very rarely untie my rope. I generally don't climb with an overly-long rope.
Faster to slide the HH, than re-dial-in my hitch length.

Unless I know what my next tree will be, I leave the HH where it is in the rope when packing it in the rope bag.
 

LordFarkwad

Active Member
Thanks, south - I do the same with my hh's hitch (bend rope, tie stopper), and that seems like the ONLY way to get it to meet the <2" requirement after loading.
 

therianclimber

Well-Known Member
X2 on the Knut H, it's awesome. I also still have a 2" section of big shot tube on one leg of my hitch which helps it engage. I use HRC hit cord on my HH2, seems to take a beating like no other cord I've used.
 

Jem4417

Well-Known Member
I did the never untie your hitch for years on the wrench and found it totally makes a difference in performance retying everyday. Hitch hiker might be a little different but once I got into the ritual of tying my knot fresh each climb I found it was much more reliable
 

LordFarkwad

Active Member
I did the never untie your hitch for years on the wrench and found it totally makes a difference in performance retying everyday. Hitch hiker might be a little different but once I got into the ritual of tying my knot fresh each climb I found it was much more reliable
Cool, I'll keep doing it that way, then. I've been retying every time I go out, but with the goal of distributing wear around the hitch cord (since it turns colors and shows wear), so that the same side of the cord doesn't end up with all the wear every time. Didn't realize increased grippiness was a potential benefit of doing this.
 

LordFarkwad

Active Member
Also want to try some different hitches too, like you guys are showing, if for no other reason than to see the differences.

Do alternate hitches than the ones in the instructions have RopeTek's blessing? I'm always kind of hesitant to go away from prescribed methods for anything involving life support.
 

LordFarkwad

Active Member
Side question: besides tying stopper knots in climbing rope on the way up, is the only other way to really have a backup to use a mechanical ascender? In other words, does anyone actually use a friction hitch as a backup somehow?
 

Jehinten

Well-Known Member
Also want to try some different hitches too, like you guys are showing, if for no other reason than to see the differences.

Do alternate hitches than the ones in the instructions have RopeTek's blessing? I'm always kind of hesitant to go away from prescribed methods for anything involving life support.
I do not believe they do, but @pctree can answer that. As for the length I try to keep it pretty close to the 2" mark, and some hitch cords grab a little better than others. My HH2 came with 10mm beeline and I never could get it to work well consistently, 9.3 arbpro was a much better hitch cord for me on Vortex.
 

DSMc

Well-Known Member
Don't worry about trying to change the wear pattern each time you tie the hitch. It might wear out a smidge faster but you will be much more consistent with your hitch tension if you just tie it the same each time.

The shortest hitch, that will also release well, will give you the least amount of set-back each time you stop. Set-back is not a big deal on MRS but a true annoyance in SRS.

Take the time to get your hitch stable on the ground. You don't want surprises in the tree! After tying the hitch, clip in with your harness and load it, heavily, several times. In between loading it, work it by taking in the slack, several pulls. You want to make sure that changes in hitch length, while in the tree are just small, fine-tuning adjustments.

Of all the hitchs I have tried, I still like the basic, recommended hitch for the HH the best, though I tend to use less wraps.
 

DSMc

Well-Known Member
The HH is a hitch dependent device. Get your hitch right and you will have no need for any backup. It is the most trust inspiring tool for tree work I have used.
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
The Knut H doesn’t have to be tied to the point of being too tight, like the regular HH hitch. I tested it with the Regatta Braid, and was able to get it to reliably grab even with 16-18” legs.

I don’t think you’re required to use the hitch Ropetek suggests, it was the best one that they knew of.
 

LordFarkwad

Active Member
Have any of you ever tested the amount of friction just the dogbone and carabiner alone offer with your preferred climbing line? Just for the sake of knowing, I'd like to try somehow to get the dog bone to engage the rope, but without enough upward pulling force (on the db) that it is contributing much force to supporting me as I hang from the carabiner.

I'ma give that knut H a try...
 
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DSMc

Well-Known Member
The Knut H doesn’t have to be tied to the point of being too tight, like the regular HH hitch. I tested it with the Regatta Braid, and was able to get it to reliably grab even with 16-18” legs...
There are many hitches that will grab reliably and the HH hitch once set does not need to be, and in fact shouldn't be too tight. My big thing, as you might have guessed is set-back. I want as close to none as I can get.
 
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