Gri gri for lanyard! I think I figured out a safe way to do this!

Bob Bob

Well-Known Member
#41
Would it be correct to say that it's not recommend by the manufacturers to use the Trango Cinch or the Petzl Grigri for RADS / YOYO since these are assisted belay devices and not auto braking decenders (assuming your are removing your hand from the tail of the rope when using)? If that's the case I've been ignoring the manufacturer's instructions on these two devices for years!
 
Last edited:

moss

Well-Known Member
#42
Would it be correct to say that it's not recommend by the manufacturers to use the Trango Cinch or the Petzl Grigri for RADS / YOYO since these are assisted belay devices and not auto braking decenders (assuming your are removing your hand from the tail of the rope when using) If that's the case I've been ingnoring the manufacturer's instructions on these two devices for years!
I believe that is correct, these are devices designed for belaying on dynamic ropes.
-AJ
 

Bucknut

Well-Known Member
#43
Why don’t you ebay the gri-gri and get a Trango Cinch?
Pretty sure that gets right back to square one- the Cinch is a belay device, not a positioner/lanyard adjuster. (I know he already bought the ART).

Screen Shot 2019-02-11 at 7.04.18 PM.png

I did however use mine as a lanyard adjuster. It hasn't seen the light of day in 3 years. Found it way too finicky and actually had it open up and slide on me several times at extreme rope angles when it was pressed into my saddle by the climb line. (Which the manufacturer clearly warns against above) Frankly, I thought it sucked. I bought a Grillon (for all of $45) on Treebay and it's been flawless.

Edit: In fairness to the manufacturer I should clarify: I thought it sucked as a lanyard adjuster. (Of course it would probably also suck as a spoon, which it was also not designed to be). It was reportedly a fantastic and affordable belay device, but I don’t believe it’s produced anymore.
 
Last edited:

Jimmycrackcorn

Well-Known Member
#44
No and no.

In the video, which can be seen, the instant the rope is pulled, the cam mechanism actuates. That does not happen at all with the 10mm rope.You have made some good points but that is not one of them.

No need to falsify what is happening to support your point.

As far as your comment "the right device"... tell me in your opinion, what is the right device? Clearly it is not the grillion, as the manufacturer recommends having a hand on the tag end and the other hand on the adjustment lever.


The Art positioner only comes with 15' or less ropes... there has to be a mechanical rated for this. What is it?
You got some nerve accusing me of falsifying things to prove a point considering what your trying to promote.. If you understood the differences within these devices & the basic 101 behind their rated function, you'd realize my actual point had nothing to do with when the cam was engaging line your arguing above. It was the fact that at no point did i see the cordage actually stop moving thru the device. Yeah the cam engaged, whatever.. that's great... but from what i saw, the cordage continued to creep through after with light load! Hence my suggestion to saddle up & induce an actual load on it in an extremely slow manner instead of some table top hand pulling test that doesn't come close to simulating how its actually going to react with a human load.

To go on & argue the Zillon, Grillon, Cinch should all technically have the same cautionary tale as the GriGri because of some literature suggesting 2 hand use under certain situations, highlights the exact point your missing, as two hand use has nothing to do with the pause for concern or the reason i saw it creeping.

Yeah sure, Moss chimed in & says he has used one, but he's experienced in this field, knows whats going on 100% of the time, he fully understands the devices function & knows when & where to use it.. Even then, he knows it isn't optimal & even says so.. Bottom line is, using the GriGri in the manner your advocating for is not a safe option for someone as a lanyard adjuster with limited experience or skillset.
 
#45
You got some nerve accusing me of falsifying things to prove a point considering what your trying to promote.. If you understood the differences within these devices & the basic 101 behind their rated function, you'd realize my actual point had nothing to do with when the cam was engaging line your arguing above. It was the fact that at no point did i see the cordage actually stop moving thru the device. Yeah the cam engaged, whatever.. that's great... but from what i saw, the cordage continued to creep through after with light load! Hence my suggestion to saddle up & induce an actual load on it in an extremely slow manner instead of some table top hand pulling test that doesn't come close to simulating how its actually going to react with a human load.

To go on & argue the Zillon, Grillon, Cinch should all technically have the same cautionary tale as the GriGri because of some literature suggesting 2 hand use under certain situations, highlights the exact point your missing, as two hand use has nothing to do with the pause for concern or the reason i saw it creeping.

Yeah sure, Moss chimed in & says he has used one, but he's experienced in this field, knows whats going on 100% of the time, he fully understands the devices function & knows when & where to use it.. Even then, he knows it isn't optimal & even says so.. Bottom line is, using the GriGri in the manner your advocating for is not a safe option for someone as a lanyard adjuster with limited experience or skillset.
Hot head much?
 

Bob Bob

Well-Known Member
#46
Edit: In fairness to the manufacturer I should clarify: I thought it sucked as a lanyard adjuster. (Of course it would probably also suck as a spoon, which it was also not designed to be). It was reportedly a fantastic and affordable belay device, but I don’t believe it’s produced anymore.
This comment on it not working as a spoon had me cracking up.

I really appreciate this discussion, which has touched on the topic of assisted belay devices, auto braking decenders and manufacturers recommendations. It's always helps to have experienced climbers to discuss these topics with in a constructive manor.
 

moss

Well-Known Member
#47
This comment on it not working as a spoon had me cracking up.

I really appreciate this discussion, which has touched on the topic of assisted belay devices, auto braking decenders and manufacturers recommendations. It's always helps to have experienced climbers to discuss these topics with in a constructive manor.
Fist fighting hasn't gotten too bad, just a few broken chairs ;-) The main thing for me, against belay devices as lanyard adjusters, is they're designed to be used with both hands, one hand on the lever, the other on the tail. A lanyard adjuster needs to operate one-handed or a climber is going to get frustrated really quickly. It's possible to one-hand the Trango Cinch, hand creating friction on the rope above the device and operating the lever same hand but it's awkward and the last thing a climber needs is awkward.
-AJ
 

JeffGu

Well-Known Member
#48
I love the Trango Cinch as a lanyard adjuster. Never once have I used it with one hand on the tail of the rope. It also makes a fine sausage stuffer, and can be used as a can opener on wilderness campouts. I once killed a bear with nothing but a Trango Cinch and 12 feet of Ocean Polyester.
 

Mowerr

Active Member
#49
I feel every climber no matter their purpose be it recreational or work, should know their friction hitches and have then all mastered. Whether for emergency or for a lanyard. No matter what I try out nothing stays, I always go back to a friction hitch and pulley or a snap to mind it. Beauty also is that you can take it apart and use the parts for other things.
 
#50
I feel every climber no matter their purpose be it recreational or work, should know their friction hitches and have then all mastered. Whether for emergency or for a lanyard. No matter what I try out nothing stays, I always go back to a friction hitch and pulley or a snap to mind it. Beauty also is that you can take it apart and use the parts for other things.
I learned about a dozen friction hitches and bought lots and lots of play rope of many sizes many months ago. To my mechanical mind, they are the compromise, where a perfect mechanical solution exists.

I have a patented mechanical design for industry as well. I just think in mechanical terms, and in my brain, using rope for friction hitches is the last resort, not the first.
 

moss

Well-Known Member
#51
I love the Trango Cinch as a lanyard adjuster. Never once have I used it with one hand on the tail of the rope. It also makes a fine sausage stuffer, and can be used as a can opener on wilderness campouts. I once killed a bear with nothing but a Trango Cinch and 12 feet of Ocean Polyester.
Oh damn! I'm so wrong ;-) Different strokes! I hope you thoroughly inspected your gear after the bear incident! I heard from an old mountain hermit that bear blood degrades polyester like no one's business.
-AJ
 

moss

Well-Known Member
#52
I learned about a dozen friction hitches and bought lots and lots of play rope of many sizes many months ago. To my mechanical mind, they are the compromise, where a perfect mechanical solution exists.

I have a patented mechanical design for industry as well. I just think in mechanical terms, and in my brain, using rope for friction hitches is the last resort, not the first.
Makes sense. The experience of climbers has been that friction hitches remain the most versatile and finely adjustable/climber friendly rope tool we have. Rope Runner, Compact Bulldog Bone and Akimbo are narrowing the gap but the hitches still sit on the mountain top. Looking forward to seeing what your mechanical can do. One of the last mechanical obstacles is wet rope. Hitch works on wet rope, current multicender mechanicals do not. Belay devices do work on wet rope. Rain and weather happens to tree climbers, functionality on wet rope is important.
-AJ
 
#56
Makes sense. The experience of climbers has been that friction hitches remain the most versatile and finely adjustable/climber friendly rope tool we have. Rope Runner, Compact Bulldog Bone and Akimbo are narrowing the gap but the hitches still sit on the mountain top. Looking forward to seeing what your mechanical can do. One of the last mechanical obstacles is wet rope. Hitch works on wet rope, current multicender mechanicals do not. Belay devices do work on wet rope. Rain and weather happens to tree climbers, functionality on wet rope is important.
-AJ
How do you feel about the perceived limited life of rope hitches? The temporary nature? How easily they can be damaged or burned through from normal use?

Use during rain? Why stop there? Why not insist that a hitch work in ice as well?
 

moss

Well-Known Member
#57
How do you feel about the perceived limited life of rope hitches? The temporary nature? How easily they can be damaged or burned through from normal use?

Use during rain? Why stop there? Why not insist that a hitch work in ice as well?
They don’t work well in icing conditions, nothing to-date does. My hitches last a long time, hitch cord is relatively cheap, strong solution for tree climbers. Hitch cord is not easily damaged with normal use, they wear gradually with time and are easily inspectable. I usually take them out of service when the cordage cover becomes too stiff/not supple, not because there are fibers breaking or the cordage is falling apart.
-AJ
 

CanadianStan

Well-Known Member
#58
They don’t work well in icing conditions, nothing to-date does. My hitches last a long time, hitch cord is relatively cheap, strong solution for tree climbers. Hitch cord is not easily damaged with normal use, they wear gradually with time and are easily inspectable. I usually take them out of service when the cordage cover becomes too stiff/not supple, not because there are fibers breaking or the cordage is falling apart.
-AJ
I haven't personally tried it (thankfully) but the Bachmann knot is meant to be helpful on icy ropes.

I wonder, if in the future, arboriculture ropes will start featuring the "Dry treatment" that mountaineering ropes have
 
#59
I haven't personally tried it (thankfully) but the Bachmann knot is meant to be helpful on icy ropes.

I wonder, if in the future, arboriculture ropes will start featuring the "Dry treatment" that mountaineering ropes have
I don't care about dry treatment on my tree ropes, I want bi-pattern. It makes knowing where you are on the rope so much easier, especially when setting up. All of my rocking climbing ropes are bi-pattern and always will be.

As far as the gri gri goes, I use it extensively while rock and ice climbing recreationally and while guiding. I don't use it at all for tree work. It's just not the tool for the job. I've tried it for various arboriculture tasks and typically there is something better in the truck for that task than the gri gri. The exception is the occasional job with high angle access just to get to the base of the tree.
 
#60
I got a first gen grigri.
Great for belaying the kids up a little maple during barbeques at grandpa's. They really get a kick out of it. Haven't found much else to use it for.
I bought it in 05 mistakenly thinking it was about the same as a Grillon. Maybe if that spring pushing the cam open is removed, but I don't wanna grind the rivets and risk ruining it.
 
Top