Gri gri for lanyard! I think I figured out a safe way to do this!

TallTreeClimber

Well-Known Member
Okay, I think I understand why grigri use as a hip d ring lanyard wasn't/isn't safe to use, and I think that this mitigates the dangers...

Using a larger rope than recommended, such as a 11.7 or 12mm causes the grigri to jam up a little so that rope doesn't pay through the device without activating the cam mechanism.

Am I thinking about this right? Or is there some other reason that this isn't a great Idea?
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
Think of cams as bent levers

What you’re doing is changing the length of the lever arm. This changes the forces at the axle. While it seems like it’s working when things go pear shaped and you need that leeeeetle but it more force to grab the rope it might not be there.

Be super careful

There are so many purpose built solutions. This seems like a weasel move and I wouldn’t want you to get hurt
 

TallTreeClimber

Well-Known Member
Think of cams as bent levers

What you’re doing is changing the length of the lever arm. This changes the forces at the axle. While it seems like it’s working when things go pear shaped and you need that leeeeetle but it more force to grab the rope it might not be there.

Be super careful

There are so many purpose built solutions. This seems like a weasel move and I wouldn’t want you to get hurt
Thanks for the words.

What I'm trying to do is use a mechanical to pay out line on my lanyard when weighted. I have been using a ropeman, but that requires removing weight, which is difficult when working in a tree at times. What do you suggest? I'm not a fan a prusik and a pulley, and I was trying to make something that I already own do the trick, because not only do I not know what will work, but I'd have to buy it first!

I presume an art thingy would work. But they are pricey!
 

Mowerr

Well-Known Member
Ya the grigri2 I got was one of my biggest waists of money. I've tried so many times to put it on lanyards and repurpose it but I always have something else that works better or is lighter and more safer/efficient. Lmk what you end up doing with it
 

TallTreeClimber

Well-Known Member
Ya the grigri2 I got was one of my biggest waists of money. I've tried so many times to put it on lanyards and repurpose it but I always have something else that works better or is lighter and more safer/efficient. Lmk what you end up doing with it
I really dug mine until I learned to ropewalk. Now ropewalk is king. Everything centers around making that experience better.
 

TallTreeClimber

Well-Known Member
Think of cams as bent levers

What you’re doing is changing the length of the lever arm. This changes the forces at the axle. While it seems like it’s working when things go pear shaped and you need that leeeeetle but it more force to grab the rope it might not be there.

Be super careful

There are so many purpose built solutions. This seems like a weasel move and I wouldn’t want you to get hurt
Are you referring to using it as a lanyard where the angle of the rope acting on the grigri is different than if one was simply hanging from the gri gri?
 

Talon Tree Service

Active Member
I tread cautiously when using gear against manufacturers recommendations. I hated the grigri I had, it was useless for lack of a better word.
There are the ART positioner 2 or petzl zillon. Both devices will release with weight. The positioner 2 is superior to me. It’s simpler, no links to bend or worry about a twig or leaf jamming into the links. Very compact too. It’s super easy to install, easy to disassemble and inspect, easy to learn, durable, and works well. Also, it is rated for use as a secondary SRT device. The zillon is not. Positioner 2 can be used, with a special kit I think, for cable lanyards if you like, and the zillon can not.
The ART is something you can live without, but it really is nice
 

Mowerr

Well-Known Member
Ya I agree but we were just talking about tinkering with the stuff we already got and not dropping money on those things cuz I know they are both nice. Id like to try them both. I have a zz so I know id like the zillon but I def wanna try the art positioner. Pricey tho I was close to buyying it a cpl months ago I just couldn't cuz I already got hitches dialed in. I just can't help but tinker with my gear all the time and try new things .
 

Mowerr

Well-Known Member
When I first bought the grigri2 many years ago I was pretty new to climbing and I saw it at a store and thought it was the grillon. They look the same but the grigri has a spring loaded cam on it meant to help catch falls. I think the grillon doesn't have this spring.
 

rope-a-dope

Well-Known Member
I know you said you arent a fan of a prusik and pulley, but they are inexpensive and soooo easy to change, adjust, adapt and in general do exactly what you want if you experiment with them. I use a positioner 2 now, but remember how sweet it was when i found the right little knot with a dinky short hitch cord to work my lanyard. Super smooth and easy when i got it right. And buying rope is never as dissappointing as a device that doesnt work the way you wanted.
 

DSMc

Well-Known Member
I'll second the above suggestion. A hitch and micro pulley may take a little time to get dialed in but when you do it is a really nice setup. Cheap, light and efficient.
 

Jimmycrackcorn

Well-Known Member
https://treetools.co.nz/_blog/Blog/post/grigri-grillon/
The spring cam on the grigri needs to be loaded heavily. If your lanyard grabbed perfectly 99 times out of 100 that 1 time could be a bad time.
What talon says is the best way to explain it..

To add to that...
Generally speaking.. My understanding of it is, its designed not to grab "unless" xy&z happen. The spring keeps the cam from fully engaging "unless" there is rapid enough movent. Now i can't speak for the differences between all the versions, especially the "plus" as i believe it has different modes, so maybe something has changed in regards to cam sensitivity.. Regardless, although some experienced ppl have gotten away with using it, it is still not designed to catch with the slower static movements we make within the tree constantly loading & unloading at variable speeds.. Set it up on your cordage & lean into it extremely slow.. you'll see what were taking about.

Then compare a springless design where it starts to catch before the load is even really applied.

Also, i heard someone comment on the zillon.. ironically enough i swear i just read earlier today that the Zillon was ok to use on single line, but only with another hand on the tail off the cordage. I know.. I know.. it doesn't sound right to me either.. you'd think it would at least say "only with a munter on the tail below"... but what i was reading didn't even mention that.. Again.. "just a hand below" is what the article said.. i had to read it a few times to believe it. Ill have to go dig that back up...

Edit - ok.. there we go... That was easier to find than i thought. It was Petzls actual ad literature.. read below..
"'Known for its flexibility and ease of use, this 2.5-meter lanyard can be used in double mode on the harness side attachment points or in single mode on the ventral attachment point with the hand on the free end. Its bright yellow color offers exceptional visibility for an additional layer of protection.""

However, i don't think they mean that as primary life support.. but in the same sense that the ART Positioner 2 was being compared to the Zillon previously in this thread & in the same way ART intends SRT to be used when their Positioner.
 
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TallTreeClimber

Well-Known Member
Regardless, although some experienced ppl have gotten away with using it, it is still not designed to catch with the slower static movements we make within the tree constantly loading & unloading at variable speeds.. Set it up on your cordage & lean into it extremely slow.. you'll see what were taking about.
That's why I specified that using a larger diameter rope like 11.7mm mitigates this risk. I was really seeing if anyone else had thought along these lines or experimented with this. Using a rope larger than the grigri specifies keeps the rope from running through it at all unless the release lever is pulled.

It doesn't seem like anyone paid any attention at all to that part, but instead the replies mostly focus on "it's bad to use the grigri against manufacturer recommendations". I absolutely understand the gravity and consequence of failure in these situations, and that's why I specifically explained in the op what I thought may be an exceptional case.

Maybe I didn't say it clearly enough. Let me try to add this;
My grigri shows the following on its case;

15498103121331565601823032174545.jpg


It doesn't matter how slowly I load it, when using 11.7 scandere, the device will not pay out rope unless the release lever is used. Even if I put the rope in a straight line so as it could perfectly feed into the belay side (which would never happen if you were in a tree climbing with it) the cam mechanism will activate and grab the larger rope quickly because of the interference fit of using a larger than optimum sized rope (note the picture shows 11mm outside of the optimum range, 11.7mm not even listed in the useable range).

Has anyone ever noticed this effect or tried a grigri as a lanyard adjuster under this circumstance?

Watch:

This is the phenomenon you guys are cautioning against:

10mm rope through a grigri:
 
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Mowerr

Well-Known Member
Honestly I can always find a way to make any hitch work. I thhat's why I never end up with a mechanical on my lanyard
 

Jehinten

Well-Known Member
I'm just annoyed at the inefficiency of a hitch, having to tighten it up and the the setback after each adjustment.
I've posted this on here before but this is both ends of my DEDA lanyard. The hitch adjuster is so compact that there is minimal sitback. The majority of that comes from the length of the legs from the hitch to the carabiner.
Screenshot_20190210-093519_Photos.jpg

If the reason that you do not like hitches is because of them sitting back, you may want to try some bulk cordage instead of an eye to eye. This way you can shorten those legs on the hitch at a minimal cost.
 
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