Friction saver for advance climbing

Bob Bob

Well-Known Member
Curious to know what happened? , I use tight carabiner chokes frequently (for advancing and positioning anchors).
-AJ
The trouble I've experienced is with ground retrievals of cinched TIPs. I've never had issues using them in the canopy for advancing or positioning.

I almost always use a limb or trunk cinch TIP to access or exit the canopy on SRT. Once I'm back on the ground, I use a pull down line/rope/cord to pull the cinch out of the canopy and back down to the ground. If the limb cinch is set high and too snug, I can have trouble breaking the friction to free the cinch and pull down the works. In extreme cases this has required me to climb back up to the TIP to re-set the cinch to better facilitate a ground retrieval. Since I've started using a version of the Texas tug with a pulley, the pull down chore from the ground has gotten much easier and is almost always successful.
 

moss

Well-Known Member
The trouble I've experienced is with ground retrievals of cinched TIPs. I've never had issues using them in the canopy for advancing or positioning.

I almost always use a limb or trunk cinch TIP to access or exit the canopy on SRT. Once I'm back on the ground, I use a pull down line/rope/cord to pull the cinch out of the canopy and back down to the ground. If the limb cinch is set high and too snug, I can have trouble breaking the friction to free the cinch and pull down the works. In extreme cases this has required me to climb back up to the TIP to re-set the cinch to better facilitate a ground retrieval. Since I've started using a version of the Texas tug with a pulley, the pull down chore from the ground has gotten much easier and is almost always successful.
Aha, yes, makes sense. I try to keep clarity in this kind of thread, a canopy anchor being a completely different animal than an SRS/SRT anchor for advancing per the original post.
-AJ
 

DSMc

Well-Known Member
... I think the important thing is that some form of friction saver is used. If not for your rope's sake then at least for the tree's sake...
For just advancing up the tree, on most trees, this is a bit overcautious IMHO. A couple of pulls in a DdRT configuration should not hurt either the tree or the rope.
Of course, using SRT would be better still.
 

Bob Bob

Well-Known Member
For just advancing up the tree, on most trees, this is a bit overcautious IMHO. A couple of pulls in a DdRT configuration should not hurt either the tree or the rope.
Of course, using SRT would be better still.
No friction saver = the easiest & fastest to deploy of all the sugestions by far.
 

southsoundtree

Well-Known Member
Curious to know what happened? , I use tight carabiner chokes frequently (for advancing and positioning anchors).
-AJ

One need not obsess about getting it as tight as possible. It will still work.

One the way up, with a long advance, it might not choke super tight. I may lanyard-in or stand on branches to slack the rope and shake it a bit to choke tighter as I advance and the line angle changes. I prevent it from slipping up and me slipping down.
 

SomethingWitty

Well-Known Member
I use mostly leather cambium savers including one MARCS. The MARCS is nice but a little too small on some trees. I think Climbing Innovations is thinking about releasing a larger or extra large version soon which should be received well.

The regular leather cambium savers are simple to set, cheap, last forever, pack easily and are less likely to be crushed or damaged which can happen to the conduit savers under certain conditions. They can also achieve a very tight bend radius, survive a tight crotch placement and may be slightly lighter than the conduit style. It's also easier to pull a spliced eye through if needed (not a issue with the MARCS since it's midline attachable).

The conduit savers do have some good features; they are magnetic, can be homemade with the right supplies and apply less friction than the leather savers.

All of the options Jeffgu suggested in post #13 would be smoother and apply less friction then the leather and conduit cambium savers but require a little more equipment and slightly more time to set. If I was a working climber I probably would use one of those options for large pruning jobs.

I think the important thing is that some form of friction saver is used. If not for your rope's sake then at least for the tree's sake.

PS: Don't tell anyone, but I carabiner choke my climbing line all the time in the canopy. Especially helpful when trying to tie in when there is only a trunk or spar and no limb to work with.
The only reason I don't make a habit of it is so that I don't have to work outside of my habits when I'm in polite company (around the boss or saluting branches or comps). Fiori made a believer out of me.
 

CanopyJames

New Member
Hey there,
I've found a simple solution that works for me using the equipment I already have.
To advance a MRS one must unclip the termination end of the rope, introduce some slack, throw it higher, pull it down, then clip back in. My suggestion is to try putting a biner on the large ring of your friction saver. Put your rope through your friction saver as usual except use the biner in place of the big ring. Now when advancing your line, the motion is nearly exactly the same. Unclip the biner on the big ring, throw it higher, pull it down, clip it back to your rope.
This solution allows you to use a friction saver for your advancing ascent while changing little to no technique and adding the least amount of new gear to your harness.
Good luck!
 

evo

Well-Known Member
Hey there,
I've found a simple solution that works for me using the equipment I already have.
To advance a MRS one must unclip the termination end of the rope, introduce some slack, throw it higher, pull it down, then clip back in. My suggestion is to try putting a biner on the large ring of your friction saver. Put your rope through your friction saver as usual except use the biner in place of the big ring. Now when advancing your line, the motion is nearly exactly the same. Unclip the biner on the big ring, throw it higher, pull it down, clip it back to your rope.
This solution allows you to use a friction saver for your advancing ascent while changing little to no technique and adding the least amount of new gear to your harness.
Good luck!
I spliced up a small ring on a prussic. I can pop that on to any lenght of rope, with a single spliced eye, boom done. Steel biner in the eye and a stopper on the other side. Once out of reach or sight i just make sure to set it up in a fashion where it' free hanging and out of range from rubbing.
 

SomethingWitty

Well-Known Member
I spliced up a small ring on a prussic. I can pop that on to any lenght of rope, with a single spliced eye, boom done. Steel biner in the eye and a stopper on the other side. Once out of reach or sight i just make sure to set it up in a fashion where it' free hanging and out of range from rubbing.
And then you can advance your friction saver as well, if you tossed it through a union 10 feet away?
 

NateCharlton

New Member
For conifer advancing SRT/SRS I frequently choke with a carabiner, quick and effective. Remember this is not a remote canopy anchor, it's always within reach and visual inspection. You can go around the spar or larger diameter limb, always gate up or opposite the load direction. You're not going to lever the carabiner spine, it's well past the time to bury the myth of crossloading in this choking scenario. You can alternate with your lanyard, if carabiner terminated not rope snap, and main rope, and quickly move up.
-AJ
Thanks for saying this. I thought I was the only one with doubts
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
The two ring legs are almost parallel in the pictures, they wouldn't be if around a tree. I came across an osha report of a circus hair hanging act, where half a dozen performers fell 20' because of a tri-loaded carabiner breaking.
 
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JeffGu

Well-Known Member
...because of a tri-loaded carabiner breaking.
If I remember correctly, all 20 were hanging from a ring several feet in diameter, which was supported by a swivel and a single carabiner, and that it was configured wrongly by the tech.

I have configurations I use much more frequently than the one in that particular pic, and I use a steel carabiner (oval) with it, but if you think that's unsafe, don't use it. I have rigged down wood a lot bigger than myself with the same configuration, and I wasn't gentle about it. I usually use a 1/2" Quick Link instead of the carabiner when rigging.

I usually don't show pics of configurations I haven't used myself, and none of those are unsafe, IMO. I've used them all. Looking back at the pic, I do show it with a SS RE 'biner that is not an oval one, and that was probably just because it was already on the pulley. An oval 'biner is the correct style to use for that.

Again, if any of them make you nervous, use something else.
 
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*useless info*

Active Member
I generally think of tri-loading krab as the cross version of loading long solid leg properly lengthwise then a 3rd pull improperly across that line of force on solid leg. Only gate pulls would be worser!
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But there is also a version of tri-loading krab that Brocky highlights of 2 pulls on one end. Especially then that pull being further across. To me this is the partial gate loading version that 1 ring is partially displaced to. Individual krab design sometimes aggravating condition more.
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Force flow should be conducted exclusively down column of krab spine squarely.
Not across, nor to gate side.
See gate as pulled ACROSS minimal axis if hinge pin, as weakest link gate side. Same weakness solid or wire gate. Stay off gate side. View solid or screw link as dual support legs, krab as single support leg version. Clevis dual support columns too, but MASSIVE 'gate pin' up to the task. Wider clevis needs MUCH thicker screw 'gate pin'.


@SomethingWitty #28
Just cuz worked before doesn't mean I'd align a support architecture to such geometry.
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If alignments fall to this point and get by, could even question if fit for future use.
I think should treat gear as 'holy' and stay with scripture of geometry and especially rigid/hard shocks even in history.
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Might find vids of bridge jumpers, don't mean works every time!
 
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SomethingWitty

Well-Known Member
I've gotten more lax over the years.
There was a time when I felt strange letting a half inch rope support me, and now I use dyneema loop runners regularly. Hardware has been similarly demystified and I now respect it as quite capable of handling forces that I will put on it even if it is not quite as perfectly loaded as I (or the manufacturer) would like. The only concern that I have with a crab cinch is the possibility of a gate opening. That is accounted for by aligning it properly and only doing it when I am close enough to tend to it, or rarely when I have only one descent to do and can ensure that once I apply pressure and visually inspect it that the pressure will not vary and cause movement.
 
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