Friction saver for advance climbing

#1
Hey guys I have been debating about something for awhile. Here’s the thing I usually use a launcher to get my line set at the top of the tree. I go up srt to set friction saver to work the tree using ddrt. But I know it’s not always that easy. Some trees I can’t set my line that easily. So if I want to start low and keep on advancing my tip as I go using ddrt. What would be the fastest and most efficient choice for friction savers? The weaver leather one? Or the dan house tubing one? Which is better for the rope? Thanks guys
 

southsoundtree

Well-Known Member
#2
Just choke it if can, RB or if you're into it, a Quickie or steel biner (minding the orientation. Save the friction saver for when you have moving, weighted rope.
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
#3
Dan House...for soooo many reasons.

Here's what I used for many years

Made from a 1" tubular webbing sling

First I'd tack the ends to make a snug eye to hold the screwlink and biner. Then I'd run a line of stitching up both edges of the sling to keep it flat,,,the yellow lines. The stitching was NOT meant as life support. If you keep the bar tacks on the right like in the pic the end with the biner is easy to whip up to the next TIP

With this setup you never disconnect from your rope and never have to worry about fumbling any gear.

False crotch 1 inch webbing homemade closeup arrows for sewing web.jpg
 

MikePowers321

Well-Known Member
#5
You are talking about setting a friction saver every time you advance your line, say 5-10 ft until you reach your Tie in Point? Sounds like a waste of time and energy to me unless you are working with super delicate thin barked trees.
 

SomethingWitty

Well-Known Member
#7
Wait. There is an easy solution there. The dan house rope sleeve is my favorite friction saver for advancing ddrt. It is pretty smooth, adds weight to the end of the line, and just really works well at the thing it does. If you can reach (or even almost reach) the next fork, you grab the carabinier and clip it back in, or if you can't, it is easy to whip slack even if it barely clears the union. Pull a little slack, tie a slipknot, and set it in the next one. It's very efficient.

Edit: I could have read the thread first, but I still stand by the thought that the edge that the rope sleeve gives you in advancing is enough to make up for the trouble of setting it.
 

southsoundtree

Well-Known Member
#8
I'm talking about no friction saver.

The Dan house will work with a minimum diameter of branch. If climbing a conifer, you are often looped over a small bend radius, on the far side of the trunk over a limb, or over a couple small limbs. I frequently climb into wood much smaller than 6".


"Will bend over a limb as small as 6" thick"-treestuff.com
 

moss

Well-Known Member
#9
I'm talking about no friction saver.

The Dan house will work with a minimum diameter of branch. If climbing a conifer, you are often looped over a small bend radius, on the far side of the trunk over a limb, or over a couple small limbs. I frequently climb into wood much smaller than 6".


"Will bend over a limb as small as 6" thick"-treestuff.com
Don't believe everything treeStuff says ;-) I roll my own with I believe the same spec Dan uses, Anaconda Sealtite M 3/4" ID Type M.T.C., at least that's what I recommended to Dan a few years back after I detected poor wear issues with the spec he was using ;-) For the use described by the OP I recommend cutting the stock sleeve down to 18", that length works super well for DdRT advancing in conifers and deciduous treess for that matter if you happen to DdRT in them.

For smaller than 2.75-3" go around the spar and let the small branch act as a "stop".



-AJ
 

moss

Well-Known Member
#10
For conifer advancing SRT/SRS I frequently choke with a carabiner, quick and effective. Remember this is not a remote canopy anchor, it's always within reach and visual inspection. You can go around the spar or larger diameter limb, always gate up or opposite the load direction. You're not going to lever the carabiner spine, it's well past the time to bury the myth of crossloading in this choking scenario. You can alternate with your lanyard, if carabiner terminated not rope snap, and main rope, and quickly move up.
-AJ
 

moss

Well-Known Member
#11
Here's an example of a carabiner choke for the spar while advancing, I happen to have an 18" conduit sleeve on the rope, I'm switching modes, moving and stationary system in this climb, again not a remote canopy anchor, this is placed and removed as part of alternating advancing technique.



-AJ
 

southsoundtree

Well-Known Member
#12
I think that you can cross-load, but don't have to.

A choke doesn't have to be super-duper snug, as it would be if set in front of oneself.

When I am going to lower off of choke, and have a pull-down/ retrieval line, I will lower down the tree with my lanyard a bit, and weight the climbing line when the choking eye is somewhat open. I'll test that it doesn't want to tighten from my direction of load, and then continue down. Its easier to pull down.

A looser choke is less likely to cross-load.

A screw-link is tougher/ burlier as a metal connection. A small wrench is easy to have on the harness.
 

southsoundtree

Well-Known Member
#14
I'll often carabiner-choke the climbing line in larger wood, remotely. As I get to skinny wood, I'll change to a running-bowline choke, if I need to. If you're down to 3" wood, a RB is preferable, IMO.
 

moss

Well-Known Member
#15
I'll often carabiner-choke the climbing line in larger wood, remotely. As I get to skinny wood, I'll change to a running-bowline choke, if I need to. If you're down to 3" wood, a RB is preferable, IMO.
Two or three quick wraps on the 3" wood then choke, carabiner acts as a keeper, sees very low load in a choke because of the friction, again this is for advancing or work positioning, not an anchor you won't be close to.

Not to beat a dead horse... screwlinks, Quickies, Runing Bowline etc. are awesome anchoring tools/methods, I'm talking about when you're on the go advancing or setting up work positioning to make a cut, you want the quick and precise anchor location (for work positioning), spinning a delta nut can seem an eternity ;-)

That said, for advancing your main rope in a stationary system, Quickie on a tight eye choked is pretty awesome.
-AJ
 
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moss

Well-Known Member
#16
....Some trees I can’t set my line that easily. So if I want to start low and keep on advancing my tip as I go using ddrt. What would be the fastest and most efficient choice for friction savers? The weaver leather one? Or the dan house tubing one? Which is better for the rope? Thanks guys
The conduit sleeve (Dan House) is easy on the rope and the tree, also keeps pitch off your rope. The ring/ring with a pulley of some kind as shown in the photos above is also very easy on the rope. It's a few more motions to install than just flipping your rope over a branch, and stuff to drop potentially. There is more play in the system (distance between you and the anchor) compared to a short sleeve, that can make a difference. Sometimes just closing 5" between you and the anchor makes it easier to acquire the next anchor, trees are like that.
-AJ
 
#17
I like to use the MARCS from climbing innovations. It is mid-line attachable and it bends to small diameters. I climb ddrt and use ddrt on my lanyard to advance my TIP. I switch between them until I get to the top. Then I set a ring and ring and climb off of that.
 

Bob Bob

Well-Known Member
#18
I use mostly leather cambium savers including one MARCS. The MARCS is nice but a little too small on some trees. I think Climbing Innovations is thinking about releasing a larger or extra large version soon which should be received well.

The regular leather cambium savers are simple to set, cheap, last forever, pack easily and are less likely to be crushed or damaged which can happen to the conduit savers under certain conditions. They can also achieve a very tight bend radius, survive a tight crotch placement and may be slightly lighter than the conduit style. It's also easier to pull a spliced eye through if needed (not a issue with the MARCS since it's midline attachable).

The conduit savers do have some good features; they are magnetic, can be homemade with the right supplies and apply less friction than the leather savers.

All of the options Jeffgu suggested in post #13 would be smoother and apply less friction then the leather and conduit cambium savers but require a little more equipment and slightly more time to set. If I was a working climber I probably would use one of those options for large pruning jobs.

I think the important thing is that some form of friction saver is used. If not for your rope's sake then at least for the tree's sake.

PS: Don't tell anyone, but I carabiner choke my climbing line all the time in the canopy. Especially helpful when trying to tie in when there is only a trunk or spar and no limb to work with.
 

Bob Bob

Well-Known Member
#19
A choke doesn't have to be super-duper snug, as it would be if set in front of oneself.

When I am going to lower off of choke, and have a pull-down/ retrieval line, I will lower down the tree with my lanyard a bit, and weight the climbing line when the choking eye is somewhat open. I'll test that it doesn't want to tighten from my direction of load, and then continue down. Its easier to pull down.

A looser choke is less likely to cross-load.
This is good advice southsoundtree, about not having to do the chokes super snug. I found this out the hard way.
 
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