Friction Hitch Questions

#21
View attachment 39845 View attachment 39844 View attachment 39843
This is what I use, a slightly modified vt. I went the same way as your friend at first by going long to introduce more friction. They would work at first but most would tighten up with the tails getting longer until the hitch locked up after repeated ascending and descending. The pictures show the front, side and back views. The knot is just an overhand with the tails. I tried various other knots but they wouldn't tighten up until a load was applied and then one leg would be longer than the other.

Thanks @SomethingWitty for posting that video. So you don't need the ring that your buddy shows?

Thanks @N.e.Tree for verifying that it is the correct way to tie it. It was hard to tell from the pictures that @Steve Connally showed in the other thread. Do you know if there is an official name for it?

Edit: Sorry, but the pictures are back, side and than front.
Would love a video showing how you tie, dress and set this. I can't quite figure it out from the pic. First time I've ever seen the e2e tethered right to the bridge. Cool idea!
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
#22
It's just a 4-2 v.t. With an oval carabiner added. It still clips to the harness the regular way. To tie, do the four wraps and have the first crossover, or braid, be in front. Instead of a braid in back take the two tails together and tie a overhand knot. Next take the carabiner and clip it through the first braid, which is in front, and let it hang. The tails will be behind the carabiner and rope so pull them through the oval carabiner out to the front and clip to your harness carabiner.

Hope that helps
 

SomethingWitty

Well-Known Member
#23
I need to get my gopro back on my hat.
Got a couple of little videos.
I'm also going to get you guys a tying video. It takes me about 30 seconds dressed and ready.

This hitch is every bit as smooth as my well broken in rope runner (which is no longer broken in because of rotated bollards. Ugh.) I am going to start seriously running it for work.

 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
#24
image.jpeg Thanks SomethingWitty for posting those. The descending in the first shows that the hitch works when you stopped and then started easily again to descend. I played with Steven's hitch today with a fairly stiff cord that wouldn't bite, the wraps didn't receive enough of the load because of the lower part of the hitch. I quess a softer cord is needed.

Did the tails lengthen? I have found that just trying out a hitch in a controlled climb is different than when using it while working. You don't go as easy on it because you are concentrating on a million other things.

Here is a long hitch I came up with before the short one. Looking back through my notes it looks like it is the only one to work.
 

SomethingWitty

Well-Known Member
#25
View attachment 39862 Thanks SomethingWitty for posting those. The descending in the first shows that the hitch works when you stopped and then started easily again to descend. I played with Steven's hitch today with a fairly stiff cord that wouldn't bite, the wraps didn't receive enough of the load because of the lower part of the hitch. I quess a softer cord is needed.

Did the tails lengthen? I have found that just trying out a hitch in a controlled climb is different than when using it while working. You don't go as easy on it because you are concentrating on a million other things.

Here is a long hitch I came up with before the short one. Looking back through my notes it looks like it is the only one to work.
No, if it is dressed properly, it doesn't seem to change once it gets set. I worked on one today with a few ascents. I tied a 5 over 1 to start, and it was quite a bit grabbier. Tending was harder, but I had complete faith in its holding ability.

Edit: I haven't tried anything besides HRC with this hitch. The heat resitance is important to me, and I have little faith in ice tail to not bind up.

Maybe try fewer of the helical braids with a larger top hitch? I have found that you need a hitch that keeps its wraps tidy (like the distel) is important.
 
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Brocky

Well-Known Member
#26
I agree with your comment about the Icetail being mushier than the HRC, Beeline might work also. I never thought about it but you're right about a hitch that keeps their shape perform better.
 

SomethingWitty

Well-Known Member
#31
Has anyone tied, or are using any of the above hitches?
I've played off and on with that long hitch. It really needs a firmer kernmantle to function properly in stationary rope systems.
My tachyons and yale 11.7 don't really get along with it. I haven't been carrying that samson static around with me since it got cut.
It does work fairly well in MRS setups. I can see it being a safe option for gear-light stationary ascent and then work the tree with a moving rope system...
Can we go back to ddrt and srt? I miss them.
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
#32
I think they just addd to the confusion by adding two more terms. With the two new official terms do they think the other names are just going away and will be forgotten? Some people hadn't made the change from DRT to DdRT. And how does two terms cover five, maybe more, climbing systems? It's as clear as mud now!
 
#33
SomethingWitty, please forgive my slow mind. Are you saying that you somehow managed to find a hitch, hitch cord and rope combination that allowed you to operate in SRT mode without the benefit of a secondary device to share friction with the hitch?

If yes, this is the first time I've ever read of someone managing to do so. The need or desire to share friction with the hitch to enable a hitch to function in SRT was the thing that caused Kevin Bingham to have his brilliant flash of imagination, and come up with the Rope Wrench, if I'm remembering the story correctly.

I always thought a hitch would bind up tight without something to share friction. Heck, there's a thread on this forum that tries to address the issue of hitch binding even when a friction sharing device is in play. So I'd love to hear more of what you have to say on this issue.

A photo or even just a good description of the climbing hitch you like to use, along with your preferred rope, would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any response you choose to give.

Tim
hitch_pub.jpg

Here is a hitch I've been using for SRT that some of you might be interested in trying. I was using a distal, tied as in the image labeled A, which I used in conjunction with a rope wrench for quite a while. I noticed that this hitch would jam and that when it did it seemed to be due to locking/friction/tightness near the bottom where the two tails cross. Therefore, I tried mitigating this by routing the one tail through a bottom coil/turn as shown in image B. The loaded hitch had a really nice action, and didn't jam etc, to the point where I tried it without my rope wrench and viola! I've been using it for the last month or so without a rope wrench a single line and it seems to be reliable/repeatable :) It has a nice easy slide action on the way down, and a fluid quick/easy release when transitioning to ascent. It's worth noting, that the loaded hitch places a dramatic bend near the bottom, breaking the friction load into two sections, that of the coils on top and that of the bend on bottom, as the rope wrench does but inverted. The fact that the balance between these load points is maintained stably throughout use is key, ensuring that it locks quickly/reliably without setback, and doesn't jam. It def has to be tied to use up all the cord, so snug coils/turns is important so that as it loosens it's not too long/loose. Also, the micro pully is still needed to make tending slack on ascent work well, I'm not sure this works at all without the micro... I did experiment without the micro and verified that if the bottom loop flips up (hitch inverts), the hitch just locks, no falling :)
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
#34
Welcome Jared, the hitch you show has previously been shown as the Matt Cornell hitch. I didn't know it would work in SRT mode. With the short legs you show, perhaps the hitch doesn' tighten up with extended use, which usually happens with just using hitches on SRT.

Edit: just went back to the beginning of this thread and see it starts with the Matt Cornell hitch, only shown tied mirror fashion from yours.
 
#36
Welcome Jared, the hitch you show has previously been shown as the Matt Cornell hitch. I didn't know it would work in SRT mode. With the short legs you show, perhaps the hitch doesn' tighten up with extended use, which usually happens with just using hitches on SRT.

Edit: just went back to the beginning of this thread and see it starts with the Matt Cornell hitch, only shown tied mirror fashion from yours.
I used it up and down several times in the rain today and it doesn't bind for me. Sometimes I have to break it free on transition to ascent but it breaks easy and stays broke, the micro pulley really helps get under it for that, doesn't require loosening a leg or stage, just a nice even push with the micro. I'm about 150 lbs plus 20 lbs of gear.
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
#37
Sounds good. I was going to try it but got distracted by something. Will try again tomorrow. What are you using for hitch cord?
 
#38
Sounds good. I was going to try it but got distracted by something. Will try again tomorrow. What are you using for hitch cord?
Using a nylon chord, 8mm, fairly supple and fine weave sheath. I've tried it with a couple diff ropes and with the laced eye chord pictured too and they all seem to work similar. I refrain from fast descent and always tie a second backup hitch on a longer cord, seperate carabiner, attched to my mainline above the working hitch. For the backup I use a variation on the Blake's hitch which tends easily, doesn't loosen, and always engages without slipping. Here's a photo of that one
 

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Brocky

Well-Known Member
#39
I tried this with 7mm accessory cord on 10mm HTP and it worked nice and smooth like a hitch on a DdRT system. As you stated it has to be tied tight with short legs or it slips a little after pushing it up to ascend. Another hitch, that I also tried, that is related to the Matt Cornell, is below. It also has two "parts" and bends the rope
IMG_1455.JPG
 

Brocky

Well-Known Member
#40
@jaredtritz, I completely forgot about your post of the Blakes variation that you came up with. Could you post another picture of it or explain how to tie it. I couldn't figure out what's going on from the picture. Thanks for your help, there aren't many single eye hitches and I would like another for my collection.
 
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